Question about prop pistols

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My girlfriend and I are volunteers at a railroad theme park and we dress in 1880's lawman attire. We wear non-prop pistols and have not had any trouble till this last two weekends. The Fellow who is there to provide security(dresses as a town marshal) was directing hired security guards for an event there and for what ever reason told the hired guard to tell us we were not to wear our guns. The guard said(his words) that there were complaints of "Brandishing" of my guns. I was placing my hands on the butts to rest them, might have not been a good move. He then said that either a California or Federal law stated that we or the park needed a Permit to carry non-firing prop guns for theactral use. Now, we have been there for almost 2 1/2 seasons and had no problems before. I have shown my guns and explain how the real ones work with no problems till now. The park employee seems to have it in for us and I think he is pulling this stuff to try get us out of there(note the owner likes us and what we do) It has not been a problem before. My question is: is there a law, california or federal that says that a permit is needed or is he full of you know what? Please advise and if there is, where can I look it up. Thank you in advance.:confused:
 
Federal, most likely Not
as for crazy land, er the left coast...
your guess, google might be a good place to start,

BUT on a side not, unleaded guns are legal to OC in cali, I'd take it up with management, and if they don't want to back your or provide what is needed, I'd pack it up and say sorry, I don't need trouble and if the idiot wishes to make it, I can do something else.
 
if i am not mistaken, it is legal to open carry an unloaded firearm in CA.

take the issue up with your boss, if you get his blessing to continue.....tell the "Marshal" to get lost.


also.....who reports an in costume park employee for "brandishing"....?

your an old west character....its kind of implied that you are to have guns....

is the gun-phobia in CA really that bad where people freak out over people in costume....in a THEME PARK.....

i mean, i could understand if you were pointing your guns at children and waving them around.....but it sounds to me they dont leave the holster.
 
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He then said that either a California or Federal law stated that we or the park needed a Permit to carry non-firing prop guns for theactral use.
Absolutely no federal law about carrying weapons -- real or not -- on private property, or even on public property that isn't a government building/installation.

CA? Maybe...but I doubt it. As said, it is legal in CA to openly carry an unloaded firearm. How a prop gun is somehow more dangerous is hard to fathom.

Check with the Calguns forum, but I'm pretty sure his words of wisdom are worth very little.

If this is a privately owned theme park, you should be absolutely covered by whatever the owner allows.
 
There is no CA law...I'm sure fiddletown will be by shortly to correct me if I'm wrong...It sounds like this security guy is just getting badge heavy. Permission to carry would come from the owner/manager of the park...they can even have the park posted No Guns and grant actors an exemption.

Unless the theme park has a policy against it, you can openly carry an unloaded handgun just about anywhere...you can even have live ammo in the belt loops.

The only permit that I am aware of would be blank firing prop guns used in movies...those are usually issued by the city/county

Having said that...
I have shown my guns and explain how the real ones work with no problems till now.
I don't think it is a good idea or the proper place to be showing guns to the public...save that for your home or the range...unless it is part of a show at the park
 
This is an ignorant attitude.

I don't think it is a good idea or the proper place to be showing guns to the public...save that for your home or the range...unless it is part of a show at the park

It is a great place to be sharing about guns. Guns are fun. Meeting people about talking about them in a fun place makes it enjoyable for all. It also shows people in an open setting properly, safely handled firearms and creates good impressions of gun owners to non-gun owner. Especially since this is a themed park.
 
I don't think it is a good idea or the proper place to be showing guns to the public...save that for your home or the range...unless it is part of a show at the park

I could see explaining PERIOD correct pieces, when asked or as part of living history, but blinging? naw

As for Mr. Badge heavy, that's a management issue
 
MarkDozier said:
This is an ignorant attitude.
Really?
Are you local to the theme park in question?
Are you in CA?

I answer the OP's question as regional specific...and addressed the allegation of him Brandishing his gun. Discussing the gun in his holster, explaining it's history and it's use would have been completely acceptable. I'm would not have been surprised that someone would have made a complaint of Brandishing if the OP where to pull his gun from it's holster to show his guns.

It would be no more acceptable for a modern day LEO to answer inquires about his sidearm by pulling it out of his holster and showing it off. The only time I've seen guns out of their holsters in theme parks is during staged shoot outs.

In any case the Security manager was mistaken in his stance that there was a requirement for a permit, unless it is some local ordinance.
 
Thanks for all the info you all supplied. We are talking with the CEO of the park about comming back because of problems with the "Barny Fife" that is the Towne Marshall/Security officer. He was the guy that got us to volunteer in the first place and this year has due to lord knows what is trying to get us removed, Going as far to curse at us in front of paying visitors. He is 75 years old and it seems he has been on strong meds for an unknown problem. But that is not the issue, He only brought the pistol matter up the last weekend of July, not sooner. As to the "Brandishing" We had Thomas the Tank Engine there and some parents that don't come to this venue were there for that and did not know about the park's theme. Otherwise it has never came up. I have had people from around the world take my photo and the guns never caused a problem. I did do some gun show stuff for the tourists and it never was a problem till The above mentioned person started his rant, using foul lanuage and threatend to call the County Sheriff on both me, my lady and the owner of the park. And to have us arrested and the park cited! This is not germain to my question, but to give a better view to all that replyed. And Thank you to the moderator for his insight. You were most helpful.:)
 
The additional information brings up a interesting point. So Barney went from being very supportive to being irritable, abusive and confrontational.

There are a lot of meds which can have an adverse effect on a person's personality, sometimes it is just a matter of being made aware of the obvious affects it is having on folks around them and having their doctor adjust the meds
 
I may be wrong, but it's either "capable of discharging a shot" or not...if it does not meet the definition of a firearm, I don't see what else can be said unless there's a town ordinance requiring orange tips or similiar nonsense.

It would seem like you should un-volunteer and they can give you a call when they get a clue.
 
"Barney Fife" needs to be "put out to pasture". His behavior is uncalled for.

If the CEO can't/won't understand that ... take a walk. Life is too short to put up with morons like that.
 
Man From Boot Hill said:
My question is: is there a law, california or federal that says that a permit is needed or is he full of you know what? Please advise and if there is, where can I look it up. Thank you in advance.

No permit is needed to open carry an unloaded handgun in a non-prohibited area.

Under CA laws [PC 12550(c)], a "non-firing prop gun" is considered an "imitation firearm".

Under CA laws [PC 12556], you can not carry/display an "imitation firearm" in public, unless you have an exemption [PC 12556(d)].

A "theme park" falls under PC 12556(d)(7). Therefore, the owner/operator of the "theme park" will need to get a permit from the county government to allow the display/carrying of "imitation firearms".



Penal Code 12550
As used in this article, the following definitions apply:
(a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001.
(b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001.
(c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.

Penal Code 12556
(a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable as a misdemeanor.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
(1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public viewing.
(2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or restoration of the imitation firearm.
(3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video, television, or stage production.
(4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting event or competition.
(5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest control activities.
(6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private shooting ranges.
(7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities, including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials.
(9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private schools or displays that are part of a museum collection.
(10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case.
(12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful.
(13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
(e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots, automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or dwellings.
(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.
 
From Quiet's citation,

It would seem that the park can only allow what OP & his significant other said they were doing, carrying real pistols in an unloaded state.

And, that, if they were required to go to blank-firing, a permit would be required.

Go figure.
 
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