Deanimator
Member
On my recent deer hunt, in addition to my Savage .30-06, I carried a 6" S&W Model 29. Good for close range shots on deer, and the only two legged critter it won't stop wears a hockey mask and carries a machete...
Question about self-defense while hunting/hiking
- Thread starter bdg146
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bdg146
Member
I was living in State College up to a year ago... if I had posted then, I probably would've taken you up on the offer. I've moved a bit farther East now though. But thank you... very nice of you to offer.
Debunk Brady
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- Jul 1, 2007
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In my opinion, a .45 is fine for black bear. You average black bear is not all that big. For a grizzly, kodiak, or polar bear, I wouldn't be confident with a surface to air missle, but for a black bear a .45 would be fine.
Shot placement is counts more than anything.
Shot placement is counts more than anything.
wabbles
Member
Going back to the orginal statement that you were most likely to stay with your Ruger P90 (great gun by the way), here is my advise for what it is worth. I carry a .45 Glock when hiking. Feel free to alternate the rounds from FMJ to JHP. This will allow for defense against several types of predators. I have never had a feeding problem doing this. If you want to stick with one type of JHP round, Hornady XTPs are know to penetrate deeper than most. Also you might look into the Federal EFMJ rounds.
30-06 lover
Member
I would suggest bear spary over your 45. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=bear+spary&noImage=0
If I were to suggest a handgun to stop a Black Bear charge it would be 44 mag or 454 casull, but those are revolvers.
I can't think of any semi that would consistanly stop a black bear charge so I won't suggest one.
Your best bet at stopping a close range black bear attack with a gun is a 12 gauge IMO.
Quick story...My dad and cousin had a black bear problem one night and went after it in the morning. They spotted it about 100 yards from camp and my cousin gut shot it. Pissed the bear off something awful and charged them. Bear took several rounds before it fell about 25 yards in front of them, and still wasn't dead! They put a final round in it and it finally expired.
Point-They were shooting deer rifles which are way stronger than any pistol and a poor shot resulted in an attack, so remember that shooting a bear alone is not going to hurt it and make it run off, it may provoke a charge. If possible get a long gun and bear spary. Pistols are backups, not primarys. Just my opinion anyway.
If I were to suggest a handgun to stop a Black Bear charge it would be 44 mag or 454 casull, but those are revolvers.
I can't think of any semi that would consistanly stop a black bear charge so I won't suggest one.
Your best bet at stopping a close range black bear attack with a gun is a 12 gauge IMO.
Quick story...My dad and cousin had a black bear problem one night and went after it in the morning. They spotted it about 100 yards from camp and my cousin gut shot it. Pissed the bear off something awful and charged them. Bear took several rounds before it fell about 25 yards in front of them, and still wasn't dead! They put a final round in it and it finally expired.
Point-They were shooting deer rifles which are way stronger than any pistol and a poor shot resulted in an attack, so remember that shooting a bear alone is not going to hurt it and make it run off, it may provoke a charge. If possible get a long gun and bear spary. Pistols are backups, not primarys. Just my opinion anyway.
contrary to what some have said, Desert Eagle in 44 mag is an excellent gun for personal protection in the woods, the felt recoil from 240grain bullets is comparable to 165 grain in my .40 S&W sigsaur p239
the devastating stopping power of a 44 magnum combined with the very low recoil(compared to cartridge being fired) and relativly cheap ammunition(compared to 454/460/500/50AE) a blue'd eagle 44 mag is one of the best options
and in a good hip holster and a quality belt the weight really is not bad at all(5'10 210lbs) and i carry mine with me whenever i'm in the woods...and if i'm going through a pine thicket to where i'm hunting and jump a deer i can rain on his ass(the only one i've jumped and had a shot at i hit 3 times
)
the devastating stopping power of a 44 magnum combined with the very low recoil(compared to cartridge being fired) and relativly cheap ammunition(compared to 454/460/500/50AE) a blue'd eagle 44 mag is one of the best options
and in a good hip holster and a quality belt the weight really is not bad at all(5'10 210lbs) and i carry mine with me whenever i'm in the woods...and if i'm going through a pine thicket to where i'm hunting and jump a deer i can rain on his ass(the only one i've jumped and had a shot at i hit 3 times
)41 Mag
Member
While not ever have hunted bears in particular, and only hunted bear country once, I would definately give a nod to the recommended ammo.
I hunt in some very thick river bottoms here in Tx. Most of it is thick enough that long shots could very well be arms length in some cases, but 25 - 50 yds are the norm. We go in after feral hogs which can be just as bad or worse than a pissed off bear in the close cover. Some refer to them as East Texas Grizzlies. I have used most calibers from the .30 Carbine up to the 454 Casulle and have found that the heavy cast .357's, a quality 10mm cast or JHP, as recommended hard cast or quality well constructed 45 Auto, 41 mag and 44 mag will all stop one with good shot placement.
The thing I was told about the bears when I hunted Co. was that if you came across one that it may or may not realize your there. IF you startled it, it would probably just head the opposite direction. However if cornered or feeling cornered it could put up a bluff charge to check it's situation. Now this would be your decision as to wether or not the charge is going to stop. Having been charged in a similar fashion by several hogs in the 200 - 300 pound range I can honestly tell you it isn't time for weak knees or nerves. You are basically deciding right then and there to shoot or not to. In most cases with the hogs I shoot reguardless, as thats why we're there, but I am not going to get fined or otherwise for shooting the hogs.
One point to this is, we have found the hogs to be as tough or tougher than most other critters roaming around in the woods. Yes they can all be put down with a varied assortment of armory and projectiles, but pound for pound and such, the hogs are tough customers. Their hides are thick and the shoulder plates on some of the boars will actually stop penetration from even close up shots with high powered rifles, so they are some contention for handguns. In the close cover the shot must count or you have a similar situation of a pissed bear. While the hogs don't have claws to speak of they do have very sharp tusk, which they definately know how to use, and can rip an artery open in the blink of an eye. We have found that if a round will drop the hogs in most given situations with reliability, then it is generally good for most other work as well.
As to the autoloaders, I have taken several hogs using my IAI Javilina in 10mm. It's 7" barrel allows me to run the 180gr bullets out to over 1350fps and using the proper one, it reliably dropped the hogs on the spot. I do admit however that during the initial use of this pistol I made a couple of mistakes with the bullets used. Accuracy doesn't always mean reliability in killing. The most accurate bullets I have ever shot from this pistol were the Remington Golden Sabers. THey are not a hunting bullet by any stretch. They shoot one hole raqgged groups at 50yds through my pistol, but at less than 30', two of them within an inch of each other just below the ear, only extremly agitated a bruiser boar hog.
Bottom line is your pistol will work fine if your using the proper bullets for the job. Don't worry so much about the expansion, take penetration very seriously. The hard cast bullets with a round flat nose, or even a wadcutter design will move as much tissue or more due to the depth of penetration than most jacketed hollowpoints. They also have the best chance of getting to the boilerworks or possibly making a somewhat bad shot better due to the depth the might reach. Something like this Oregon Trail(tm) 225gr TCBB, if it will feed reliably, should work well.
I have used their 180gr RNFP in 40 cal to some extent and had good luck with them. If I were you I owuld look for the best combination of velocity and weight which in the 45ACP would be using something in the 200gr range. The 230's are good but in most cases you can run the 200's faster and depending on the bullet construction could in most cases get better penetration from the added velocity over the addd weight.
My mainstay is the 41 mag using the 200gr Rem. JHP bullet loaded to 1350fps. This load is very reliable on both deer and hogs out to 100yds and has accounted for plenty of up close and personal one shot stops. I also use the 240gr Rem. bullet loaded between 1200 and 1350fps as well and have complete confidence it it as well. In both of these I also shoot cast bullets as well. The 41 loads are primiarly in SWC design using velocities from 1100fps up through 1400 for the Oregon Trail bullets, and in the 44 I shoot the Oregon Trail 200gr RNFP to around 1350fps. These loads shoot just as well and work just as reliably as the JHP loads but I have a ton of the JHP on hand so I shoot them on a more regular basis. The biggest killer on the cast bullets is shipping cost.
If you handload or know someone who does this would be the best option as it would allow you to purchase the components work up your load and practice a lot more than with factory loads. There are some great cast bullets out there for the 45 and those who cast them are generally very helpful with load data for their bullets and other questions about them. Also the bulk bullets from Remington and Win will allow you to practice more, as well as offering a couple which would work for your purpose.
Good luck in your hunting and as well with your next choice of handgun. One caliber and gun is fine, more is always better.
I hunt in some very thick river bottoms here in Tx. Most of it is thick enough that long shots could very well be arms length in some cases, but 25 - 50 yds are the norm. We go in after feral hogs which can be just as bad or worse than a pissed off bear in the close cover. Some refer to them as East Texas Grizzlies. I have used most calibers from the .30 Carbine up to the 454 Casulle and have found that the heavy cast .357's, a quality 10mm cast or JHP, as recommended hard cast or quality well constructed 45 Auto, 41 mag and 44 mag will all stop one with good shot placement.
The thing I was told about the bears when I hunted Co. was that if you came across one that it may or may not realize your there. IF you startled it, it would probably just head the opposite direction. However if cornered or feeling cornered it could put up a bluff charge to check it's situation. Now this would be your decision as to wether or not the charge is going to stop. Having been charged in a similar fashion by several hogs in the 200 - 300 pound range I can honestly tell you it isn't time for weak knees or nerves. You are basically deciding right then and there to shoot or not to. In most cases with the hogs I shoot reguardless, as thats why we're there, but I am not going to get fined or otherwise for shooting the hogs.
One point to this is, we have found the hogs to be as tough or tougher than most other critters roaming around in the woods. Yes they can all be put down with a varied assortment of armory and projectiles, but pound for pound and such, the hogs are tough customers. Their hides are thick and the shoulder plates on some of the boars will actually stop penetration from even close up shots with high powered rifles, so they are some contention for handguns. In the close cover the shot must count or you have a similar situation of a pissed bear. While the hogs don't have claws to speak of they do have very sharp tusk, which they definately know how to use, and can rip an artery open in the blink of an eye. We have found that if a round will drop the hogs in most given situations with reliability, then it is generally good for most other work as well.
As to the autoloaders, I have taken several hogs using my IAI Javilina in 10mm. It's 7" barrel allows me to run the 180gr bullets out to over 1350fps and using the proper one, it reliably dropped the hogs on the spot. I do admit however that during the initial use of this pistol I made a couple of mistakes with the bullets used. Accuracy doesn't always mean reliability in killing. The most accurate bullets I have ever shot from this pistol were the Remington Golden Sabers. THey are not a hunting bullet by any stretch. They shoot one hole raqgged groups at 50yds through my pistol, but at less than 30', two of them within an inch of each other just below the ear, only extremly agitated a bruiser boar hog.
Bottom line is your pistol will work fine if your using the proper bullets for the job. Don't worry so much about the expansion, take penetration very seriously. The hard cast bullets with a round flat nose, or even a wadcutter design will move as much tissue or more due to the depth of penetration than most jacketed hollowpoints. They also have the best chance of getting to the boilerworks or possibly making a somewhat bad shot better due to the depth the might reach. Something like this Oregon Trail(tm) 225gr TCBB, if it will feed reliably, should work well.
I have used their 180gr RNFP in 40 cal to some extent and had good luck with them. If I were you I owuld look for the best combination of velocity and weight which in the 45ACP would be using something in the 200gr range. The 230's are good but in most cases you can run the 200's faster and depending on the bullet construction could in most cases get better penetration from the added velocity over the addd weight. My mainstay is the 41 mag using the 200gr Rem. JHP bullet loaded to 1350fps. This load is very reliable on both deer and hogs out to 100yds and has accounted for plenty of up close and personal one shot stops. I also use the 240gr Rem. bullet loaded between 1200 and 1350fps as well and have complete confidence it it as well. In both of these I also shoot cast bullets as well. The 41 loads are primiarly in SWC design using velocities from 1100fps up through 1400 for the Oregon Trail bullets, and in the 44 I shoot the Oregon Trail 200gr RNFP to around 1350fps. These loads shoot just as well and work just as reliably as the JHP loads but I have a ton of the JHP on hand so I shoot them on a more regular basis. The biggest killer on the cast bullets is shipping cost.
If you handload or know someone who does this would be the best option as it would allow you to purchase the components work up your load and practice a lot more than with factory loads. There are some great cast bullets out there for the 45 and those who cast them are generally very helpful with load data for their bullets and other questions about them. Also the bulk bullets from Remington and Win will allow you to practice more, as well as offering a couple which would work for your purpose.
Good luck in your hunting and as well with your next choice of handgun. One caliber and gun is fine, more is always better.
BuckShotBilly
Member
Desert Eagles are so UNreliable. I would stick with the .44 or the S&W .500
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