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Question about using a Ruger 10mm

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by ChasMack, Feb 14, 2019.

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  1. Tradmark

    Tradmark Member

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    I agree with those that advocate large revolver rounds. I am a big advocate of the 10mm. I have a customized glock 20. Great night sights and nice roughed up grips and a fantastic trigger. I love it.....for certain things. Bear and large dangerius animals arent one of them. Hunt enough big things and guns like the 10mm and 357 underwhelm you rather dramtically. Ive killed buffalo with a 41 mag handily. I got to sneak in stealthily and pick perfect angles and take the big beasts down. Change that to a head on charge scenario and i will take my 454 44 460 or various 500’s thank you very much. I will take a heavy 44 mag on up with one or two well placed shots over a 10mm no matter what the scenario. Maybe if i was facing an aggressive pack of several wolves would i take the 10mm.

    Interesting case here, but i had a buddy that was hunting a watusi bull. Hes not a real experience shot. After a few botched placement shots from his guide gun and a few misses. We pursued. Watusi can get salty. Imho much quicker than waterbuff or other bovines. It turned to face us from the mesquites. My buddy was out of bullets for the guide gun drew his srh 454 and aimed for the brain. I, and one hunter had him backed up with our revolvers. The bull was starting to come forward and my buddy fired and pulled the shot horribly out of fear and pulled it into the watusi’s left shoulder. It busted the shoulder and the bull went down and was finished off. It was about 20 yards away. My buddy isnt a great shot but isnt a bad shot. He hasnt faced this down before and he panicked. If you dont train or put yourself in stressful situations this can happen to anyone. I find it very handy to run very high horsepower rounds. Same thing with my cape buff this summer. Also with my sons lioness in 2013 in south africa. Never felt better he put a barnes 275 from a 460 through the chest. On video the lion turns to come and crumples before she gets going. This is what happens in real situations and had that lion gotten going i think itll cover the 25 yards rather quickly. Youre not getting of many shots for sure and you need to crush the animal quickly with less than perfect shots. Not the best domain for a 10mm imho based on experience. What kills a 200lb bear definitively and the 500 to 600lb variety of black bears are a whole different animal.
     
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  2. Bones741

    Bones741 Member

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    Nice time @MaxP !:thumbup:
     
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  3. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    That whole argument about absolutely needing a big bore hand cannon was disproved by Phil Shoemaker, an Alaskan bear guide while guiding folks on a salmon fishing excursion. Article and pictures here:

    https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=193

    I’m not saying the “wonder 9” is a magnificent bear killer...far from it. But with the right ammo, it will penetrate deep enough to break bones and take out vital organs.

    Larry Mudgett has some excellent articles on his website “Marksmanship Matters” regarding dangerous game and handguns. If you want to learn from a guy who has studied this topic in depth, go here:

    http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/

    Bottom line:

    1. Use a gun you are familiar with and can shoot well. Misses never count!

    2. Expect that it is going to take multiple hits with ANY handgun...

    3. PENETRATION is KING! Use flat nose bullets...hard cast if possible. Round nose bullets tend to deflect off bone, where flat nose tend to penetrate in a more straight line. Avoid hollow points.

    I’ve found Underwood Ammo and Buffalo Bore Ammo have a great selection of the hard cast ammo if you don’t reload.
     
  4. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    It was by no stretch disproved and this case was the exception not the rule. He used great ammo, he’s cool as a cucumber around big bears, and he did what he had to do, this doesn’t make the 9mm bear medicine (by the way I wrote the campanion article to that one about the Outdoorsman line of ammo).

    Break bones it probably will not, especially on large animals.

    Hardcast bullets can work well, but they can fail miserably. If your life depends on it, monolithic solids are the way to go. JMHO.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  5. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    Hahahahaha thanks! I said we have video LOL! Got the time down lower (2.89 if I can recall) in the next round but we were done filming by then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  6. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Sorry to disagree, but you seem to have centered on a premise that isn't the main one...,

    If you refer to the OP, and check the specs based on that, the question is a 3" GP 100 in 10mm..., and my comments are about the idea of a similar revolver, in .41 magnum. So it's not 10mm vs. 357, but more 10mm vs. 41 magnum.

    Now..., the OP mentions a loss of 100 fps with that 3" barrel, so it's also NOT a competition of 10mm vs .44 special either. What is at question, whether you like Hawks or not, is 10mm vs .41 mag revolvers, and I'd say both weigh about 36 ounces (loaded) since the GP100 weighs that, and there are .41 mag revolvers that also weight that. Thus.... it's not "at the cost of a larger revolver".

    Since it's also a question of anti-bear ammo, that's probably a heavy slug and a hot load....to be fair, from the same manufacturer. So if Buffalo Bore ammunition specifications as published are to be believed, we're talking 1100 fps from that 3" barrel 10mm GP 100, with a 220 grain bullet, and 1400 fps from the .41 magnum in a 4" barrel Taurus Tracker, with a 230 grain bullet. 591 ft-lbs vs 1001 ft-lbs. Now the GP100 will give you six shots vs. the same size revolver in .41 magnum with 5 shots. So there is that advantage. If you object to the Taurus as an example, then negate the one shot advantage of the GP 100, and go to a S&W Mountain Gun with 6-shots, and an extra 7 ounces, which you might say makes the "substantial larger revolver" argument work. I'm not sure it's that big an issue....

    LD
     
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  7. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    A singular event disproves nothing. All it proved is that in the hands of an expert on bear anatomy and behavior, it 'can' work.

    Those who think a 10mm in a semi-auto has it all over a revolver for speed need to watch his video shooting the compact Glock 10mm.




    You brought up the .357 and .41Mag in your post, and you quoted Chuck Hawks as saying the .357 was better, so that is what I responded to.

    Taurus is completely off my radar. I'd never buy one or recommend one so yes, the .41Mag does come at the expense of a larger, heavier revolver. Yep, the .41Mag is absolutely a bigger hammer capable of much heavier bullets but the context here is black bears. Not only are they substantially smaller but also less aggressive so a confrontation is far less likely.
     
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  8. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I am a pretty hard core S&W revolver guy. I own far more S&W than Ruger Revolvers but I think the GP100 in 10mm Auto has the potential to be one of the best all around revolvers currently on the market if your willing to make a minor change. Take a GP100 in 10mm Auto and have the chambers reamed to 10mm Magnum. You now have the ability to shoot 40 S&W for practice and 40S&W would make an excellent IDPA competition revolver. Step up to 10mm Auto and you have excellent performance for general woods carry and/or two legged critter defense. And step up again to 10mm Magnum and you have near 41 Magnum performance and 6-shots in a GP100 size package. And most important in all cases you have fast reliable reloads using moonclips.
     
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  9. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    If mine proves to be a good shooter, I may do just that.
     
  10. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    I've killed 50 or so white tail deer with a 10mm glock or delta elite. With 200 gr xtp I pass through the vitals and either stop in the muscle or fat in the other side, or on lighter deer, complete through and through. I've also put down wounded full grown cattle with no problem. (Middle of the head, instant kill) You can read anything you want online but ive used mine enough with success to not care what an online expert or energy chart might think.

    I have a 610 but honestly I agree with the folks who say if your going with a revolver a 44 is a much better option. I love the 329 pd or 629 in a 4 inch. The redhawks are heavy but I do hunt with one occasionally
     
  11. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    I have hunted with the 10mm as well (G20) and while it works well enough on medium/big game like whitetail, it’s not something I would count on for a large bear (of any variety). Wounding a deer is one thing, but a bear comes with much greater consequences. Again, placement trumps all else and if your bullet is up to the task, you’re in tall cotton. JMHO.

    Sorry, I’m just a worst case scenario kind of guy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  12. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    Ive never lost a deer I shot with a 10. Never had one go farther than a few feet. (With any gun.... not so much for archery though). It wouldn't be my first choice for bear bigger than black (I think our record is close to 700lbs. In NC). But I've killed 1500-2000 lb cattle with one shot to the head so I wouldn't try playing dead either. Lol. That said If I knew I was going to be attacked by a bear I'd stay home. If I was hunting for a bear I'd carry my 460 or 500. Back when I went along bear hunting, those weren't out yet and I carried a 44. Many lifetime bear hunters I met carried a 357 though. And the two are close enough in performance that I think either are viable. Depends on location though definitely. The biggest thing in the woods up here is only 600 or so pounds. Unless you watched that mountain monsters where they were supposedly in my county..........Tsul kalu would certainly be that "worst case scenario" lol
     
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  13. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    To the folks who say I’m wrong, you either did not read my words, did bot read the articles I linked to, or you are missing the point.

    Some people believe it to be an “ABSOLUTE TRUTH” that a smaller caliber handgun will NOT stop a bear. That is NOT TRUE. Period. The fact that somebody stopped/killed a very large bear at bad breath range disproves that theory. I didn’t mean to infer any probabilities.

    Further, and I posted this article in another thread, other bears have been stopped with these calibers. See article at link:

    http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/dangerous-predators-stopped-with-handguns/

    I am NOT advocating a 9MM as a bear gun. But when it is the only gun a person has, with the right bullets, in the right situation, it can be effective.

    The OP is asking if a 10MM will work as a trail gun to defend against bears. The answer is basically the same for a 10MM as it is for a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs. Yes it can work, if you hit the target and either dissuade the attack or incapacitate the attacker.

    Certainly, it’s easier and more likely, all things equal, to stop an attack with the larger firearm. But one must both have the firearm readily available and deliver enough bullets effectively to obtain the desired results.

    The folks on this forum not withstanding, relatively few people train regularly with large bore magnum revolvers to be effective. I’ve been to several defensive pistol classes at Gunsite, and out of 50 or so fellow classmates, one person was using a wheel gun. That studen was, himself, a Gunsite instructor and a police officer, taking his annual class, and he was only using his revolver because it had been many years since he’d trained hard with it.

    Many more folks have 9MM’s, .40’s, and .45’s and while most don’t shoot a lot, they shoot these types of guns when they do. I believe they would be much more effective repelling an attack with a familiar firearm (again, with proper deep penetrating, solid rounds) than they would be with a big bore revolver they buy for “trail carry” that they have little experience with.
     
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  14. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    Well, I'm of the belief that if YOU decide to rely on a sidearm, shotgun, rifle, slingshot, whatever to save your backside, you are absolutely obligated to being competent with said chosen weapon. I don't think there is any way around it. Personally, I practice a couple of times a week with big-bore revolvers as I want to stay sharp at all times. It's a choice the individual needs to make.

    I have hunted black bears in a number of states, and as I posted earlier, not all black bear are created equally. Here are a couple from North Carolina my hunting partners have taken. This one was from a couple of seasons ago. It was weighed the next day as it was recovered the next day. It lost weight over night as they dehydrate.

    IMG_4473.jpg

    IMG_4475.jpg

    These two are from last season.

    IMG_7700.jpg

    IMG_7701_1.jpg

    A buddy's from New Mexico.

    IMG_0064.jpg

    These aren't Maine black bears.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  15. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Good on ya, Brother. I’m in total agreement with your thoughts and actions.

    But make no mistake...of all gun owning and carrying Americans, you are clearly the exception, not the rule. Most do not have some combination of the time, range access, or funds to shoot that much...I know I don’t. Wish I did, but reality is a SOB!

    Many folks get to the range monthly at best, most even less. But as long as they know and live by the 4 Rules, they are still better off armed than not...and better still armed with a gun they’re familiar with. That’s the cold hard truth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  16. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    And how many of those giant trophy bears would have been stopped, had they been encountered and then charged, with a 10mm using Underwood, Buffalo Bore, or Cor-Bon using hot loads? What were those bears taken with? At least one was posed with, with a rifle. We aren’t talking about the best handgun to hunt bears with. We are talking about a guy mosying through the woods and encountering a bear. We can’t all carry a Ruger RedHawk, BlackHawk, BFR, or S&W X Frame. Though if that’s what you choose to do, more power to you (pun intended). Some people want something a little more comfortable when in the woods. My support of 16+1 of 10mm offers the OP an alternative to 6 rounds while still in the caliber he chose. With hard hitting, deep penetrating ammunition he wisely also chose. You don’t always have to carry hand cannons to adequately protect yourself. Some people want something a little lighter and easier to handle just in case they need it. If someone feels the 3” GP100 in 10mm isn’t adequate, that’s ok. But posting pictures of trophy bears that were hunted, some with rifles, only shows that there’s extra large examples of black bears across the country.

    I live in bear country. Had one killed less than a mile from my house last year. And we have had pretty big bears taken. Biggest was 645 lbs. No, not the bruins from your pictures. But still big. But that doesn’t mean if I take my Catahoula for a stroll in the woods, or if I just go out by myself, that I’m going to sling my 444 or 45/70 on my shoulder and my RadHawk 44 Mag with a speed loader on my hip or chest rig every time I step out of the truck.
     
  17. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    You were talking bear defense and I said that not all black bears are created equally. Lots of folks across the country think a 150-200 lb Maine black bear is the norm and all they may ever encounter. What difference does it make what those bears were killed with? The point I was making is that a 10mm may not be adequate in every situation.

    Why can’t we all carry a Redhawk, or a BFR, or a Blackhawk? The day 3-lbs on my hip bothers me, I’ll quit. Adequacy comes at a price (an increase in weight and recoil). There’s no free lunch. It’s your butt, I guess you will put your own value on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  18. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Hey, got 9mm, I'm good! :D Never thought of it as a bear gun, but why not? :rofl:
     
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  19. Rodman579

    Rodman579 Member

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    i live in bear country and hike all the time. I mostly carry my glock 20 loaded with 220gr hard cast. I know its not the perfect set up but I can draw it fast and be on target to accurately put rounds down range. I do practice a lot with it. I also have several big bore revolvers both 44mags and a 480 ruger. I can shoot them well too but they suck to carry all day as they are heavy and I have a tendency to short stroke the double action trigger pull under speed with my Rugers. I worked at a gun shop on the peninsula and we sold more 10mm ammo & pistols in that caliber than anything else. I think that mainly is because people can handle them better. I know if I go into a heavily populated bear area then I carry my Remington 870 tac-14 as well, I would rather have that then any pistol. my wife carries a S&W 329pd because for her she shoots that gun more accurately and her splits between shots under stress are no different than with my glock 20 so having higher capacity means nothing in her situation. there are too many factors you have to choose what fits you and learn how to shoot under stress not just punch paper.
     
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  20. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    I think a medium hot .44 mag to be doable for most w practice.
    See no reason for lesser if trying to stop biting things.
    Having a screwed up back these days, lighter is better.
    If I had to carry a gun all the time for critter protection, 329 PD.
     
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  21. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    Must admit, have thought about a 10mm for deer, in an auto.
    6" would be cool.
    But a 5" would get HD/truck gun duty as well.
     
  22. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    Around here, 200# dressed whitetail is a big one.
    130" buck should dress around 175#.
    Not armor plated.
    But some critters don't give up the ghost as easily as others.
     
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  23. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Yep, 10mm Auto works just fine on deer.

    l48IrH7l.jpg
     
  24. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    This is what I went with. I'm very happy with it. I can carry it for work and play. When off duty I'm normally a revolver guy but this 10mm has really found a home. It is definitely a deer, hog and bad guy pistol but I'm not sure I would use it against bears. But since I have never even seen a bear my opinion is completely valueless. :D Ruger SR1911 Target 10mm.jpg
     
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  25. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    As I think I posted already, I really prefer my 4 5/8" stainless Blackhawk in .45 Colt loaded with 300 grain XTPs at 1100 fps. Now, we don't have bear, but I do carry this revolver in a crossdraw holster when I'm hunting hogs at night for the few times I've had to track a hog through thick stuff I've hit and didn't put down in its tracks with my rifle. It will flatten a charging hog, I can tell ya that. I trust it over ANY 10mm on a bear if we had bear. I've hiked in bear country with this revolver on my hip, never actually had to use it. Bear seem to be afraid of me. :D

    21oacdk.jpg
     
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