Question for owners of S&W 317

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ulflyer

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Wife thinks she needs to learn to shoot. Never shot anything in her life, nor ever shown any interest in guns. I'm thinking of getting the 317 for her to learn with due to simplicity of a revolver, and a 22 cal for the lack of recoil. My question is: is the trigger pull light enough that a woman could pull it without unduly jerking? I know the 22's have a harder trigger than larger caliber's just to ignite the rimfire. If the consensus is that it might cause jerking, then I'll get a P22.
 
The 317 is a neat gun but, you're right, the out-of-the-box trigger pull is stiff. Combine that with the gun's light weight and you have something of a challenge for the beginning shooter. My advice would be to seek out a used Model 34 or 63 or, better yet, a K-22 of some sort (Model 17, 18, 617).
 
+1

The 317 is a very difficult gun to shoot accurately because of it's two main features.
It only weighs 12 oz, and it has a very short sight radius, at least on the 2" ones.
Combine that with a very heavy stock DA trigger and it is difficult to keep the gun from moving when the trigger breaks.

My early 317 had a DA trigger that even I could barely pull with one finger.

A Wolff spring kit fixed that posthaste, but still it is not an ideal gun for a beginner.

I'd second the suggestion that you search out a used all steel Model 34 or 63 Kit Gun, or a K-22.

rc
 
Revolvers typically need bigger grips to fill out for bigger hands. But this means that a nice K frame with the smaller stock grips can fit the hands of even the youngest or most petit woman.

A 317 is a nice little gun in it's own right but it's not the sort of thing that would see much range time if she moves on. It's the sort of gun you want to get when you know you enjoy .22 shooting for it's own merits.

I say get a nice 4 inch barrel K frame in .38Spl or invest in a nice 4inch Model 19 so you have Magnum capability. Start her off with 148gn wadcutter target loads. The recoil from them is very soft with just barely more kick in a K frame than a .22 would produce in a J framed 317. Have her try a bunch of different grips to find the ones she feels the best with and that allows her to shoot well. Then as she becomes more comfortable with the gun she can progress up to shooting full house .38Spl and +P ammo from it with maybe some time using some .357Mag rounds that use 158gn bullets just so she has some experience with them. Her range target loads may never get up beyond the wadcutters but if she ever did need to pull the trigger on the "real thing" full house .38Spl rounds then she's going to have the basics down pat.

On the issue of grips don't feel that you're stuck with the stock offereings. They are just wood. I took a set of damaged K frame target grips and with a coarse file and some sandpaper custom fitted them to my hand. If you're a bit handy with tools you could do the same for her. Once fitted to her hand a few coats of a gunstock refinishing oil to protect them and she would have custom grips that fit her to a T.

If she's interested in shooting as a sport as well as because she thinks she needs it for protection then I can see the both of you enjoying something like IDPA events together. Or perhaps cowboy action shooting?
 
I just realized that I'm as bad as you are.

Why are "we" picking out HER gun ! ? ! ?

The best thing to do is take her out to a Rent-A-Gun range and let her try out a variety of guns. Or if you know a buddy that has a good variety of guns along with a couple of different .22's maybe you could set something up with them.

But either way make HER part of the decision. If you do then she'll like what she gets moreso than if you and us pick something for her.

Start her with some .22's in both semi and revolver. Work up to the milder center fire options in both semi and revolver and if she's still got a big grin maybe even finish off with a 12ga in a tactical/home defense short barrel style.

If she thinks that shooting is all about home and self defense perhaps you and her should spend an hour checking out YouTube for IDPA and Cowboy Action shooting. In many countries, such as mine, defense shooting is just a way to get oneself into a lot of hot legal water. Up here shooting is primarily a sport. But it's a really FUN sport. You and her may well enjoy outings together of this sort. Either IDPA just because it's good situational practice for personal defense or cowboy shooting just because it's pure fun.

In any event the key is to fan the flames of intrest by making her a big part of the decision. If you just toss a big log onto the first smouldering ember of intrest by forcing ANY gun of your/our choice on her then it could well extinguish the fire altogether if she doesn't like the gun chosen.
 
I recently bought a 2" 317 for my wife and she likes it very much, prior to this one her favorite gun was a NAA Black Widow .22 with the pink grips. She's tried other guns, including .38 k-frames and other snubbies, but she's very sensitive to muzzle blast, recoil, and weight and all of these things are negligible with this gun. I do agree that the DA trigger pull is very heavy and the first thing I did was order the Wolff spring kit for it, it should be here any day.

I'm well aware of the limitations of a .22 when it comes to self defense, but it's better than nothing and this is a gun that she will actually carry and take with her when she goes walking or shopping or where ever because it's so light and unobtrusive. A lighter DA trigger and a set of pink faux pearl grips (also on the way) will make this an ideal carry gun for her, and that is according to her, not me!.
 
I have both the S&W 317 and the Walther P22. I much prefer the P22. The 317 is just no fun to shoot. Just to pull the hammer back to fire single action, bites the heck out of my thumb. And double action is very tough. Maybe I should get the spring kit that you guys are talking about. The best thing about it is its weight, and it is concealable. But its functionality is poor.

The P22 has been fine for me and has been a great shooter. It fits my hand well and feels good to shoot. I would much rather shoot it than the S&W. My only gripe about the P22 is the reassembly process with the "special" tool. What, Walther couldn't come up with something better? But it is worth putting up with for its other qualities. And the laser site that I got with it is fun as well.
 
Reading between the lines

I think you want a tool for your wife to learn to shoot and to use for self defense in a pinch.
If you reload, I would buy a four inch steel frame revolver in 38/.357 with adjustable sights and hand load a light plinking load. 148 grain WC with 2.7 Bullseye is a classic target load.
If she enjoys shooting this combination you can move on to other firearms of her choice.
If she does not enjoy shooting it would be better then nothing in a emergency
 
Excellent comments folks. I apprec all of them. My sense of it is that my wife is more like WC145 described above. I'm confident she would never carry a full metal gun, even if I could get her to shoot it. However, Earplug, you've given me a new idea. I do reload and have the makings that you describe. Hadn't done any 38's in so long that a soft target load might be just the ticket. I have a S&W 15 if I can find the small grips for it that would be good to start on and if that works, transition to my LCR with the soft loads. Heck, I might enjoy the LCR for plinking with them too. Regular loads are just no fun in that gun..at least for me...but I sure do enjoy carrying it due to its light weight. Good project for today; dig out the 38 conversion kit for the Dillon and get the reloader set back up for them.

As a footnote, Kellmark, I have a borrowed P22 that I've put a couple boxes thru and it loved the cheap Aquila stuff I had. No malfunctions at all with it, whereas everything I had read about them seemed to suggest the only reliable ammo were CCI's. Wife works and we haven't found the time for her to try it yet.
 
Now you're talking! Since you've got the guns already you'll only be into this introductory tryout for the cost of some light target reloads. If nothing else it'll be an excellent gauge on her intrest and where to go next.

And the 15 with the 4 inch barrel would be an excellent first time gun when shooting the mild target loads.

Lately I've been helping out at the local Rent-A-Gun range on Lady's nights when the place is packed. We see a LOT of first time shooters on these nights so it's common to set up an assortment of guns and let them work through the lot of them. It's surprising how many say the revolvers are their favourite just because they don't throw the brass out. It's just that one less factor among all the smoke and noise for them that makes the difference. Not to mention that soft shooting .38 target loads generate more of a push than a slap.
 
Should have thought about light loads myself, but my excuse is that I've not done up any 38 reloads in so long my brain wasn't in gear. Went out today, set up equip, loaded some powderpuff loads and shot about 25 thru the LCR. That really put the fun back into shooting that lightweight gun. I used Clays and wadcutters but have some Trailboss I want to try just to get more bulk in the case. If I were shooting these in the mod 15 it would prob feel about like 22 cal. I'm hoping she will like this and if so I'll get her an LCR.

I also had so much fun the other day shooting the borrowed P22 I might have to get one for myself.
 
I've been down this exact road. My wife won't carry anything heavier than a credit card and she doesn't like recoil. A shop guy talked her into the 317. She really likes it a lot, but it does have a heavy trigger and it always will. I do a lot of mods and trigger work, but when it comes to carry weapons, I will only change the return spring with a slightly weaker one and only polish factory parts. I don't lighten the hammer spring, and that is where most of the weight comes from on a DA pull 317.

In addition, the 317 has another carry flaw. The hammer is almost like a fish hook when you try to draw. Unless you have a foolproof way to draw it, or get into the habit of placing the thumb over the hammer, it will get hung up. Adrenaline will probably make this worse.

But the 317 got her into it, she still likes to fire it, and it is a very good little practice gun. The weight (lightest S&W) means she will be more apt to actually carry it. It is a fun little revolver and a good stepping stone to something with more umph. Now my wife is mulling the 640 or the HKP7 (I hope she can't decide and wants both!). I use a 340PD, but the it has the worst recoil of any weapon I ever fired (but I never leave without it!).

If you don't already have a .22 plinker, this is fun and a good starter/learner, but if you are going to stick to the .22, the semis are almost all more accurate. I also agree with the above poster: have her try rentals and friend's weapons at the range.
 
Strykervet: LOL, you just described my wife when you said "nothing heavier than a credit card".

Good feedback from all of you which gives me some ideas on which way to go. Gotta wait now till she's home while it still daylight (hate this DST..dark at 5:30pm) to try the LCR light loads to see how she takes to those. I have a backyard range as I live in a rural area.
 
Bought my grand daughter a 317 and installed a CT Laser grip since she wanted a light recoil weapon for home defense. Several issues became immediately apparent.
1) Heavy DA
2) Hard to cock SA due to hammer shape
3) Point of aim and point of impact did not coincide.
4) Poor accuracy
5) Would only function with CCI Stingers. All other ammo brands / types locked up cylinder rotation and had to be ejected by striking the extractor rod forcefully against something solid.

I spoke to the dealer (since it was under warranty) and was informed that all the 317's they had sold only shot Stingers without problems. (Maybe it's the aluminum cylinder, and the Stinger brass is perhaps stronger.)

She now has a used, police department trade-in Model-64 S&W and loves it. - kw
 
i hate reading all these peeps and bad experiences with the 317.

I have had nuthing but great things to say about mine.
add a 8.5lbs main spring and it is gtg. 100% reliable with all ammo.
i find it as accurate as any .22 with same barrel length.
big plus is u can share grips with any rb j frame u may have or get.
 
My wife and I sure like mine.
I have a 317 3" adjustable sight 'kit gun', had it for about fifteen years now.
Never had a cylinder lock up with any ammo I have tried in the revolver.(Maybe the stupid safety lock they install now creates this issue, I dunno, mine doesn't have one.)
Never had a problem thumb cocking it, (must be the longer hammer spur installed on the adjustable sight versions.)
Never had a problem adjusting the sights,(likely because the sights are fully adjustable.)

Trigger pull was a bit stiff from the box. (It smoothes out considerably if you just go out and actually shoot the gun.)
If you are really feeling froggy do what I did and diassemble the internals, clean it up real well inside and grease the main contact points with a good grade of gun grease.
Never installed a lighter than factory spring,(mainly because as these things begin to wear, all the ones I have ever tried in various guns began to cause misfires.)
Anyway, we like ours just fine.
 
Got the spring set and grips for my wife's gun. I only replaced the hammer spring which resulted in an immediate reduction in DA pull by what feels like several pounds and makes it much easier to shoot. In spite of it's light weight, the gun feels more stable since you're not have to work against such a heavy trigger pull.

Obviously the reason for the grips is purely comsmetic, but in turns out they lighten the gun to 10.6oz empty. More importantly my wife loves the grips and the gun - the looks, the feel, the lack of recoil - and she wants to shoot it, which is a nice change.

So, these guns may not be for everyone but, thanks to a couple of simple changes, this one certainly fills a niche in my household.

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I bought a 317 specifically to use for teaching my wife to shoot a handgun. It worked very well for her at barely 5ft. and 104lbs. I used it to teach her the fundamentals, first in single action, then in double action. She now owns and shoots two handguns (Taurus 85 and Beretta Tomcat) well, but I don't think she would have been comfortable starting with either. It is true that the lightweight made accuracy a challenge, but so did the task of holding a heavier gun at arms length for enough shots to see improvement from technique. I wanted to start with something she could spend lots of time at the line with and it worked out well for us.

Much like Onmilo, mine is an older model and hasn't experienced any of the problems listed above. I've never even tried Stingers.
 
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IMO, if your wife likes either of them I would suggest either a Ruger Mark III or S&W M22A for her to learn on. Both are extremely reliable pistols and since they are semi-autos the trigger is a lot lighter than a revolver. The sight radius is much longer too. There's noting worst to a new shooter than not hitting what they are shooting at. It's like taking kids fishing, if they don't catch fish they won't want to go fishing again.

I own a Ruger Mark II and a S&W M22A and both are easy to shoot and are accurate fun guns. Bring your wife somewhere she can handle each and see if she likes either.
 
Finally got my wife outside yesterday morning and she shot 20 rounds thru my LCR with some sub-standard 38 reloads and did reasonably well. Was not at all intimidated with the noise or recoil. Next time I'll work up some standard loads for her. She also wanted to shoot the P22 but afterwards said she liked the 38 much better. I made it a short session this first time and she was pleased with herself that she got a number of the shots in a 10 inch circle on a piece of cardboard about 12 feet distance. I shoot in my yard with a pile of dirt as backstop.

WC145: I still like the 317 and may eventually get one for myself to plink with but would prob go with the 3in barrel with better sights. Wheres the hammer spring located? Under the grips or inside?

I'm not real enthused with the close range accuracy of my new P22 but the functionality has been excellent. I have noticed a vast difference in brands of ammo so I've ordered 4 diff kinds to try to see if that makes a diff. I had Aquila, American Eagle and Mini-mags. The latter were by far the most accurate but a little pricey for plinking. The AA's were all over the place. Aquila's were so-so.
 
It comes down to what she likes to shoot and fits her hand. I will tell you the P22 woldnt be my first pick for a semiauto .22 pistol. The ones I've seen seem to be picky about ammo and finicky if not real clean. I would say buy a cheaper (and IMHO better) Ruger .22 pistol. YMMV.
 
InkED: My impression is that earlier P22's had feeding problems but these seem to have been sorted out in later guns. I bought this one after putting several boxes of mixed brands thru a loaner that functioned, as mine does, flawlessly with decent ammo. I got it just as a plinker and something small enuf I can put in my coat pocket or belt. Unfortunately, mine is definitely not as accurate as the loaner was which produced very respectable groups at about 20+ feet. I'm gonna work some more with mine with diff ammo and if not satisified, will see what Walther/S&W has to say. I've had a couple Rugers and a Buckmark....no question much finer guns; just wasn't what I wanted this time.
 
Ihad an early Walther PP22 that was such a horrible piece of junk I will never again contemplate the purchase of another.
Mine came with the 5" and the 3" barrel/slide assemblies, all kinds of spare goodies and was just as poor set up with either.

Back to the thread topic of the 317 S&W, here is mine.
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