Ok so I know there is case hardened and a color case hardened so that's not my question. This may be a stupid question but here it goes. Do they do this process to brass frames? I was just wondering if all the frames whether case hardened or color case hardened are steel. There are a lot of sites that advertise these pistols and do not tell you if it's a steel frame or not. So I just wanted to know so when I go to buy my next one. I tried searching the form but could not find my question answered.
Question on Case Hardening
- Thread starter Howie6267
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col.lemat
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not on brass steel only
Jim Watson
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You cannot case harden brass.
I don't know if you could even color it to fake case hardened steel.
I figure if it is brass it will be yellow, if it is steel it will be blotchy blue/black/red/yellow, etc.
I don't know if you could even color it to fake case hardened steel.
I figure if it is brass it will be yellow, if it is steel it will be blotchy blue/black/red/yellow, etc.
No. You cannot case harden brass (or harden it at all, really).
Case hardening is adding carbon to the surface of iron or mild steel, quenching it, turning the surface into high carbon, hardened steel. There are different ways of doing it, with similar end results (though the commercial cyanide type case hardening apparently does not make colors like bone/charcoal case hardening).
Many modern guns have "case colors"....simulated case hardening, like Rugers. I have no idea how this is done, but I suspect it is done with chemical baths of some kind.
Case hardening is adding carbon to the surface of iron or mild steel, quenching it, turning the surface into high carbon, hardened steel. There are different ways of doing it, with similar end results (though the commercial cyanide type case hardening apparently does not make colors like bone/charcoal case hardening).
Many modern guns have "case colors"....simulated case hardening, like Rugers. I have no idea how this is done, but I suspect it is done with chemical baths of some kind.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Only steel and iron.
The case color was one of things that made me think maybe brass could be done. But I see the error of my thinking now. Thanks for all the quick reply's.
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Well yes you can harden brass. But not on the brass frames on revolvers.
I don't think. You work harden brass. Like when you re-size brass cases.
You harden them.
I don't think. You work harden brass. Like when you re-size brass cases.
You harden them.
I'd say you could simulate the look of color case hardening on steel with a piece of brass. But as others noted, you harden brass with cold work, and soften it by heating it to sufficient temps.
But I don't know of any commercially produced guns that have done this. The brass frames are usually a yellow-gold color. That's half the appeal of brass.
But I don't know of any commercially produced guns that have done this. The brass frames are usually a yellow-gold color. That's half the appeal of brass.
Driftwood Johnson
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Howdy
Actually, there is only Case Hardening. Sometimes it is called color case hardening, but there is really just Case Hardening. Before modern heat treating and heat treatable alloys became available, it was common to treat iron and steel to make the surface harder.
Case Hardening is only done to iron and steel. Steel is really nothing more than iron with a very small amount of carbon added to the alloy. Yes, there are other elements added too, but mostly it is a tiny amount of carbon that turns iron into steel. Too much carbon and the steel becomes brittle and breaks easily. But Case Hardening creates a thin layer of harder metal at the surface of the metal. The standard method was to take the finished iron or steel parts and heat them in a sealed crucible in the presence of carbon bearing substances like bone and leather. As the metal was heated, carbon from the leather or bone was infused into the outer layer of the metal, creating a thin layer with extra carbon in it. Typically Case Hardening is only a few thousandths thick. That's where the name comes from, it is only the outer case of the metal that gets hardened. The interior of the part remains more ductile and able to take shocks. If the entire part had been hardened all the way through in this matter, it would be too brittle and would break when subjected to shock.
The colors produced by the Case Hardening process have nothing whatsoever to do with the strength of the part. They are simply a by product of the process. However, during the 19th Century the gun buying public became so enamored of the colors that each company strove to achieve the most dramatic colors they could. Each company jealously guarded their secret processes for Case Hardening.
Modern heat treatable steels make Case Hardening all but obsolete. Ruger heat treats their frames so they are hard all the way through, not just hard on the surface. The 'color case' finish Ruger used to apply to the Vaquero was a chemically induced color. Uberti dips their frames in a hot chemical bath to create a 'case color' effect on their parts, but it is not true Case Hardening.
Kasenite is a modern surface treatment product that can be used to form a type of Case Hardening. The powder is spread over the parts, then they are heated. This does create a true Case Hardening, but it is not like the traditional method.
Brass cannot be Case Hardened, since adding a bit of carbon to the surface would not do anything. You can make it look blotchy if you want, but there is no such thing as Case Hardening brass.
P.S. A modern form of Case Hardening is still used on black oxide screws. It creates a harder surface on the screw, while retaining ductility inside.
P.P.S. If you want to create an aged look on brass, find a friendly Black Powder shooter and ask for some of the water he soaks his spent shells in. Just rub some on and let it sit. You will get natural aging. Of course, some modern brass framed guns come with lacquer on the brass to preserve it. If you want to distress the finish you have to first remove the lacquer.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Technically, Melonite and Tenifer are what one could consider "modern" case hardening. It's just cheaper and easier to do and does not change the color of the surface of the steel.
Busyhands94
Member
I have put a patina on my Remington, I used some black patina I had for making stained glass. It's normally used to blacken the solder and lead caming in between the pieces of glass, but it puts a pretty cool finish on brass.
~Levi
~Levi
As stated above, if it's color case hardened it's steel but....
If you're looking at a gun which is nickle or chrome make sure you have a magnet in your pocket. I ran into a REAL purdy '58 Remmie that was all engraved etc. with chrome plating. Luckily I tried to stick a magnet to it and found out the thing was chrome plated brass. The gunshop owner wasn't happy when he found out, he hadn't bothered to check, he just assumed that it was a steel gun. I was skeptical because it had no proof marks anywhere.
If you're looking at a gun which is nickle or chrome make sure you have a magnet in your pocket. I ran into a REAL purdy '58 Remmie that was all engraved etc. with chrome plating. Luckily I tried to stick a magnet to it and found out the thing was chrome plated brass. The gunshop owner wasn't happy when he found out, he hadn't bothered to check, he just assumed that it was a steel gun. I was skeptical because it had no proof marks anywhere.
I have a 126 year old Colt SA, the color CH is almost all gone on it, but the surfaces are still smooth as glass. In the right light, one can still see the CH ghost pretty good.
i have surface hardened mild steel with Casinite, but it produces a dull gray color.
i have surface hardened mild steel with Casinite, but it produces a dull gray color.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
I too have an old Colt and almost all the colors have faded away. The colors of true Case Hardening are not very robust. They fade with time, harsh chemicals, and even strong sunlight. Vinegar will do a pretty good job of removing the colors from real Case Hardening. As I said earlier, the colors produced by the Case Hardening process are merely a byproduct of the process, they have no mechanical properties of their own. Many modern finishers put a clear coat of lacquer over their Case Hardening to help preserve the colors.
But you can be sure that even if the colors have faded away, the surface hardness still remains.
Tenifer is a trade name for salt bath nitriding, also known as ferritic nitrocarburizing. As was previously stated, a type of surface hardening. It works well.
If you do a Wikipedia search for case hardening, you'll find information about the different methods of surface hardening.
Lots of info there, much more than we can post here.
If you do a Wikipedia search for case hardening, you'll find information about the different methods of surface hardening.
Lots of info there, much more than we can post here.
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scrat
Member
New brass looks great (when polished). However like most brass framed revolvers or even brass trigger guards when they are exposed to the elements of black powder. they too will turn colors. I have found that on some of my revolvers the brass does change color and it cannot be polished out. I know its not the zinc leaching from the brass as its not red in color its more like dirt marks or marks from the black powder exposier that will not clean out or polish out any more.
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