Question(s) about home defense in an apartment

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Mr. Cool

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I've lived in a house for the last few years but recently got laid off and moved into the city for work.

Well, I live in an apartment/condominium now and I'm wondering a few things:

1) In the event that my apartment is broken into and I shoot the intruder, what are the implications if a round goes through the wall into another apartment?

2) I have gas heat, what are the chances that shooting an intruder can cause an explosion/fire?

3) I have a Ruger P90 and a Charter .38 Special, would the .38 be able to penetrate through a standard apartment wall?
 
1) Pray you don't hit anyone next door. You do, you're toast.

2) Could happen. Odds are pretty slim though.

3) Apartment walls can be pretty flimsy. Maybe find an old 'Snake Charmer' I don't remember the maker offhand, but it was a .410 single shot. Load it up with 2 1/2" #8 shot. They'll ruin an attackers day, and be your best bet not to penetrate the wall and kill the neighbor kid.
 
What if a round penetrates the wall but doesn't hit a neighbor...would a lawsuit hold any water considering I was protecting my home?
 
I wouldn't want to be the guy explaining to one of todays jurors that even though I fired the shot that took out my neighbors 54" TV, it was the crook I was shooting at that made me do it.
 
The truth of the matter is that any round which has a chance of being effective at physically stopping an attack is going to penetrate a common American interior wall.

The gas I wouldn't worry too much about.

For the neighbors sake, do some practicing with your weapon. Get some training with the goal being to improve your accuracy. Along with that, know your target and what is beyond it; as in exterior wall vs. interior. If you're on the first floor, realize that shooting at a downward angle would be best. If you're on the top floor, shooting at an upward angle might help mitigate any risk to neighbors.
 
And use proper ammunition. The money you save by buying 9mm fmjs won't even come close to what you could end up paying if you get a through and through on your home invader and hit somebody else.
 
Frangible rounds that break up when hitting a wall or anything really solid are a great idea. They penetrate when hitting soft things like flesh and then break apart violently. More and more are showing up. Take a look, do your homework. Apartments are a hard thing to guard. These rounds in multiple calibers are a good bonus.
 
Cool, thanks for the info guys. I'll have to look into frangible rounds. And nice link Guvnor, I bet that was a fun experiment.
 
Louisville Slugger. Look if you can use a weapon other than a firearm to deter an attacker--Why not? No reason you can't also have a gun tucked in your pants, just in case.
 
A couple very general thoughts here:

1. You are responsible for your actions, even those taken in defense of your life. If you fire a round that injuries a kills an innocent bystand, yes, you could face possible legal and civil consequences. The details would depend on the exact circumstances of the incident. If someone is injured or killed the consequences could be much more severe then if it's just property damage. Like I said though, the exact details of what might happen depend greatly on the circumstances surrounding the incident.

2. Any projectile fired from a firearm that is capable of reliably stopping an attacker is *also* capable of penetrating a few sheets of dry-wall. Any projectile that will NOT penetrate dry-wal will NOT consistenly penetrate deeply enough in a human body to reliably stop an attacker.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. If it will go deep enough to have a good chance of stopping the bad guy, it will penetrate dry wall. If if won't penetrate dry wall, it won't reliably go deep enough to stop a determined attacker.

Now, some rounds will penetrate more then others and some should be avoided because of the very real chance of them penetrating many multiple layers of dry wall or exterior walls. FMJ rounds tend to penetrate further then JHP rounds, for instance. And larger caliber rifle rounds will penetrate more then pistol rounds. The exception is that certain 5.56 rifle rounds (certain JHP's) will actually penetrate less then some pistol rounds.

The best thing to do is understand that you are in a legal risk when you use a firearm in self defense and ONLY do so if it is your only option to avoid injury or death.

After that, pick your shots and know your backdrop. Figure out what is on the other side of the walls and try to keep that in mind as much as possible.
 
To take it a step further (much further), determine the most likely lanes of fire in a home invasion scenario, and then put up some sort of backstop at the end of those lanes. It could be as simple as relocating your fridge, or putting up a bookcase (with books). Or you could put up a wall of bricks. Tell people you like the look. It really depends on how far you are willing to go.

If you're lucky, there's going to be cinder block separating adjacent units, so you should probably check first.

Most importantly, if you have to shoot, don't miss.
 
I live in an apt. Given the layout there is no safe direction to fire at an intruder if I am inside and the intruder is entering the (only) door, or is in the hallway or entrance to our bedroom. Although I have firearms and might use them under certain circumstances, I rely on a short hafted pickaxe I acquired from the pioneer kit on a HMMWV when I was a dumb grunt 0351. Not ideal but it'll have to do for now.
 
Although I have firearms and might use them under certain circumstances, I rely on a short hafted pickaxe I acquired from the pioneer kit on a HMMWV when I was a dumb grunt 0351.
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A man who defends his home with a pickaxe. Not something to be messed with...

I'm not a big believer in things like signs for security, but something to this effect should keep the riff-raff out.
 
Reiterating here...

The chance of a shot causing a gas explosion are absolutely negligible. If the chance is not negligible, you currently have a more likely and pressing problem, and need to call maintenance.

Any round capable of stopping an attacker won't even be phased by walls.

If you miss, it will breeze through half a dozen sheets of drywall like they aren't even there. Frangible ammunition has also proven to not break up on drywall. Concrete or a decent stud, yes, but it will otherwise act exactly like an FMJ of the same shape.

Rounds that don't punch through walls like paper are also only marginally better than pepper spray. #8 shot will certainly ruin a burglar's evening, but the second that 'burglar' turns into 'attacker,' #8 will have to be used at near point-blank, or will otherwise have two very specific effects: jack and squat.

Blinding him is the best to hope for, and good luck getting a good shot at his eyes at those conditions. This might also leave you open to a legal attack, depending on your state.

Moral of the story: learn the safe directions to shoot, and don't miss.

As for the damage you might do to neighbors stuff, it's just stuff. See if you can't get your insurance to cover that along with the damage caused by someone breaking your door in and rooting through your house. If they won't, just fork out for a new TV. It's the responsible and neighborly thing to do.

Note: I, too, am in an apartment. I know which directions I can shoot that 1) are safe or 2) have enough obstructions that a round won't clear through to a neighbor's bedroom. Meaning, a dozen sheets of drywall, and the sturdier entryway walls. My HD guns are a 9mm handgun or my AK with Wolf hollowpoints. I also know these guns enough to jerk them up to ready and be able to hit a COM-sized target without even looking.
 
Louisville Slugger. Look if you can use a weapon other than a firearm to deter an attacker--Why not? No reason you can't also have a gun tucked in your pants, just in case.
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I once saw a "Cold Case Files" where a guy used a bat to defend his home. They interviewed his widow, who was raped by the guy who murdered him and then set the house on fire. She said she wished she was dead.
 
This may be a newbie question but say if I do hit an intruder in the head or chest (hitting significant bone I assume), how much does that slow the round down before it exits the body? I know this depends on the round, I'd likely be using my .38.

I guess I'm asking will hitting the intruder be a big preventative in sending a round through the surrounding walls?
 
This may be a newbie question but say if I do hit an intruder in the head or chest (hitting significant bone I assume), how much does that slow the round down before it exits the body?
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It may not exit the body at all. It depends upon what kind of ammunition you use and the specific circumstances of not just that incident, but of that ROUND.

If you hit your target solidly with a properly designed expanding bullet, the odds of harming somebody else in another apartment, even if the bullet exits the body are very low.
 
Not in MY apartment. Anything bigger than an MP5 with the stock collapsed is pretty much worthless.

Don't generalize to places you've never even seen based on YOUR circumstances.
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Do you live in a really small apt? why is yours different. The birdshot seems like good advice and beats hearing 100 differnt answers about hollow point bullets and what not (I need some apt defense and was countung on birdshot).
 
The birdshot seems like good advice
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No. Birdshot is for birds. Penetration on a clothed, human attacker, who probably won't give you a squared up shot anyway, will probably have arms and other items in front of his vitals, and who may be wearing a leather jacket and/or multiple layers of clothing is NOT sufficient to count on to halt an attack.

Sure, getting shot --at all-- is a bad and disheartening thing, but not all violent aggressors are wired to give up at the first shot (many have been shot before and lived to attack again), and those who've altered their mental state with various chemicals might not even register a small-caliber wound or 20.

If you use a shotgun for defense, choose your rounds wisely. Go with something that can penetrate far enough to do the kind of damage required to shut the systems down.

Accept the fact that this means they're going to penetrate building materials too. That's just physics. And also realize that even 00 buck shot, individually, are horribly inferior to any common defensive pistol bullet from the perspective of penetration and energy. You're counting on multiple hits to have a cumulative effect, but it may only be one projectile that really hits a vital mark. Make it a big one that has the chance to get there and do its job.

-Sam
 
What about a semi-auto .22lr? You'd have a lot of shots available (you may need all of them to really stop an intruder cold) and I don't think you'd have an over-penetration issue. I have seen a .22lr bullet penetrate completely through a 2x4 (the 2" direction, or 1 5/8" or whatever the heck it is) and go partly into another, but I wouldn't think that would be too risky in an apartment. Plus it wouldn't be terribly loud in the enclosed area (least of your concerns probably, but still a bonus).
 
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