Cheap Tract Apartments: .223 or 12ga for HD?

[mussi]

My uncle who happens to be cop one picked up a perp that had been shot at rather close distance in the groin with #7.

The wall behind the perp had some traces of red, but no lead traces. Go figure.

 

[Soap]

Skunk- Don't you know anyboy that owns a large tract of land? Networking my brother, networking

 

[Zander]

Anyway, based on the penetration experiments he did, he recommends .223 for home defense over a 12ga. because it is less likely to overpenetrate. -- Zundfolge

Ding, ding, ding, ding!

We have a winner.

Many such studies have been conducted and reached the same conclusion. Counter-intuitive...yep, but valid nonetheless.

 

[twoblink]

Met a guy who now goes around high schools, telling people not to commit crimes.

His body is riddled with scars... He broke into someone's house, and he got shot with "bird spray"... ???

Art, someone, shed some light on this stuff?

He says it wasn't solid BB's, but small metal shards??

I can tell you, about 80% of his body has little holes that look very nasty..

Good for him though; requested that he serve his time, setting himself as an example of why crime doesn't pay..

I don't think this stuff will penetrate walls... It also didn't kill him, but he told me, when he was shot, he wish the guy would finish him... Not all the metal was removed, some were too deep... So he must be fun at the airport to walk behind through the metal detector...

 

[hso]

While I have always been a proponent of the shotgun with #4-#7 as possibly the best house gun/ammunition the articles on .233 use in this area at Tech Info on Olympic Arms' site http://www.olyarms.com/usa.html was startling.

If you want to test the differences in your weapons with various loads just go to the home repairs warehouse store (Builders Square/Home Depot/Lowes) on the way to the range and get a 4X8 sheet of dry wall and a 12 ft. 2x4s. Have the folks there cut the 2x4 into 4 equal pieces and nail 2 4x4 ft. pieces of drywall to the 2x4s configured to make a stand. Perform tests and invite others at the range to "play along". You'll get plenty of data.

BTW Most cheap apartments can be had in the prestessed/concrete block varieties also. And, if you move to the proper part of the country you could even find a comfy shack to rent that has it's own range in the back yard.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I've heard people say that .223 will penetrate as well as .308, and I've heard people say that .223 will penetrate less than pistol rounds.

All of which apparently with FMJ ammunition.

So which is it? I'm confused. From a military point of view, you don't want a rifle round that can be defeated by soft cover as easily as the Olympic Arms article states. Sometimes, you know, badguys hide behind things, so as to make themselves less vulnerable.

 

[benEzra]

I've heard people say that .223 will penetrate as well as .308, and I've heard people say that .223 will penetrate less than pistol rounds.

It depends greatly on which particular load you are using. As far as I can tell, lightweight JHP's are great if you want to minimize overpenetration in wallboard, etc., whereas FMJ would penetrate more deeply. It mostly depends on sectional density and how robust the particular bullet you are using is.

I think in the situation mentioned (wanting to minimize the risk to people in other apartments), I'd go with the Federal 40-gr JHP. (Yes, gelatin penetration is also less than 55-gr, but it's been used by SWAT teams for years with acceptable results, and it breaks up easily when it encounters walls.)

For an in-the-apartment situation, I'd place less emphasis on the ability to penetrate soft cover.

Just be aware that shooting any .223 indoors will be LOUD.

bE

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I've heard people say that .223 will penetrate as well as .308, and I've heard people say that .223 will penetrate less than pistol rounds.

All of which apparently with FMJ ammunition.

So which is it? I'm confused.

5.56mm FMJ (such as U.S. military issue M193 and M855) can do both. It all depends on whether the round yaws or not as it passes through a barrier.

M855 will penetrate the old steel helmet at 600m thanks to the steel penetrator insert; but if it passes through several inches of drywall, it will start to yaw since physics wants it to travel base-end first for stability.

If the round is still going fast enough, the small diameter bullet can't survive the stress of the tumble and it breaks at the cannelure, spraying fragments everywhere. However, if the round is going slower (the threshold is around 2700fps for M193 and M855), it just deforms a bit but stays intact.

For home defense there are a few things to remember - if the round doesn't start the yawing and fragmenting process (either because velocity was too low to fragment or the round didn't yaw for any number of reasons), then it still retains good potential to wound or kill someone.

Check out the Ammo Oracle link mentioned earlier in the thread - it goes into quite a bit of detail on these issues.

 

[gun-fucious]

In order to insure someone is Dead Right There (DRT)
you need 7-12 inches of human penetration

Yes, a 5.56 will go through a 2x4 and sheetrock wall

the question that has yet to be asked is:
What is the bullets condition and velocity after travelling though the wall?

a good test would be a Ballistic gelatin slab on the other side of the wall

but the round may yall way off of course

 

[illuminatus99]

there was an article by massad ayoob in one of the gun rags a while back, he asid that when they tested the .223 it went clean through the drywall but didn't have enough energy left on the other side to penetrate a body. one of the worst ones in the test was a 9mm hollowpoint, the cavity fills with sheetrock and allows it to overpenetrate.