Question to LEOs: Shotgun or AR15 for you?

[12Pump]

This is a bit of a twist on the old "shotgun vs. AR" debate. I know it's been done to death.

I was reading another forum that is pretty much populated only by LEOs, and in one thread, they were discussing what type of long gun they preferred to carry while on duty. Surprisingly, the majority seemed to actually favor the shotgun! This seems to fly in the face of the majority of the gun-owning population on most firearm forums. But since LEOs actually carry these things with them on a daily basis versus the rest of us who either just have them in the home for defense or wonder what we'd want to have if TSHTF, I would think they'd have a more realistic view. That's my reason for asking this here.

So my question to LEOs (police officers): For your home defense/civil unrest/patrol vehicle or other tactical needs, do you favor the shotgun or an AR15?

 

[nathan]

I talked to one LEO of Baytown, Texas . He prefers a REmington 870 with buckshots.

 

[Inebriated]

I'd bet most LEO's in general will pick the shotgun. The ones I know prefer it. The AR just seems like a more practical weapon to me, though, given the role of a police officer's long gun.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

.

My friend and I've argued about this. He prefers the shotgun, I prefer my AR. He's been on a long time, he's been on SWAT and other things. He doesn't miss much.



I still think the AR is far more versatile, especially at long range.
.

 

[ArkieVol]

no contest...

Remington 870 loaded with first three rounds 00 buck, last two rifled slugs.

30 years service. Retired before AR's became a popular option. I own and shoot an M4 but for serious street work would still prefer the shotgun.

 

[BigBore44]

Brother carries the AR in his patrol car and a 12 when he works SWAT. Carries both when doing Drug Interdiction. He LOVES his AR, but says there just isn't anything like a 12 for building searches. I only answer because he and I just had this discussion last week.

 

[DPris]

I was the first man to buy his own shotgun at our brand new PD in 1980, carried it in the company car for a while.
As soon as the department finally approved rifles for uniform duty, the shotgun was retired from patrol & the AR finished out my days till retirement.

Home defense here is a handgun. Easier to maneuver inside the house.

AR & shotgun travel outside the house for various types of trips.

When I was a working man, the AR was simply more versatile. Had more than one occasion where I was crouching behind a car, fire hydrant, or bush with my Remington beyond practical shotgun distances, while the guy inside his house was loading up his hunting rifle.
Far from equal. After the ARs were allowed, much more equal.
Denis

 

[Steve in PA]

We have both. Shotgun with buck shot and AR rifles.

 

[MedWheeler]

Shotguns were the norm when I was on the job. These days, it would be a tough call. For felony car stops and building searches, I think it would still be ideal. But, for active-shooter situations, the rifle or carbine would be my desire, especially now that more agencies are training patrol officers to go ahead and engage rather than waiting for special-response teams.

 

[Sapper771]

I preferred the AR over the 870, but had both in my car. I was more familiar and comfortable with the AR from my time in the Military. Most of our other prior Military guys also chose the AR over the shotgun.

 

[Warp]

Just an FYI, this seems to be the moderator stance:

Just a reminder, folks....we are not about law enforcement weapons and tactics here on THR.

That was posted in a thread where we ended up discussing LEOs and their shotguns...so I guess I'll wait until a moderator posts in here without closing the thread before being comfortable responding to the OP.

 

[Walkalong]

And we don't do SHTF threads.

If you want to discuss the attributes of the 12 gauge vs the AR 15, once again, for home defense, then by all means carry on, in a polite manner of course.

 

[dogtown tom]

Several of the departments near me allow officers to choose the rifle or shotgun (some do both) they will carry on duty. They are provided a list of approved manufacturers as well as what accessories (optics, sights, mags, etc) may be carried on duty.

So far, among my LE customers the ratio of AR's to shotguns for patrol use is about 65:1........which I'm sure was influenced greatly by this incident a few years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po41dsDbw-Q

While discussion of LE firearms seems to be verboten on THR, it is of interest to the average man to see what firearms are preferred by those who see many more life endangering moments than the rest of us.

 

[scaatylobo]

Had the choice

When I was on the job,I had the choice of the 870 that I had carried for a 'few' years or go with an M-4 [ Bushmaster ] that just came in and we all qual'ed with.

I went with the M-4 due to its ability to stop an armored perp,and its stoppage of vehicles if required.

There is also the FACT that I can hump a fully loaded M-4 AND another 50 or more rounds and barely notice it.

But the 870 with a full load [ only 5 rounds ] and then maybe another 10 rounds of shells,before it becomes a space AND weight problem.

And yes,I could reach out to 50 yards with the 870,BUT no one would want to be the hostage that I was trying to rescue IF the 870 was the only choice --- I am a good shot,but not THAT good.

On the other hand,that same shot with the M-4 was a piece of cake.

There are many situations in which I would really want the 870,but MANY more to which I would intentionally take the M-4.

btw = we carried Federal Match 62 grainers in the M-4 .

 

[Warp]

I prefer the AR15/M4 style of rifle for home defense.

Compared to a shotgun it has higher capacity, less recoil, quicker follow up shots, slightly shorter overall length (typically, barrel can be 2" *shorter* without being NFA), much greater effective range (in case you end up outside), penetrates interior walls even less, doesn't scatter stray projectiles (which you are accountable for), and easily defeats soft body armour (probably not an issue, but it happens)

IMO the main advantage of a shotgun is cost. A solid pump/slide action 12 gauge shotgun is not expensive at all.

12 gauge ammo is also more readily available than even 5.56/.223 and relatively "panic proof". (of course, many of us thought .22lr was panic proof until recently...)

 

[waterhouse]

I prefer the AR. I bet if you asked most members of my department they would say shotgun.

Shotgun is taught at the academy, you have to qualify with it, and the department provides one with every car, so every officer is familiar with them.

AR requires an extra 20 hour class, post academy, to be allowed to carry it, and often this 20 hours is on the officer's time and dime. Then the officer usually has to purchase the AR, as it isn't provided.

Because of these circumstances, at least around here, most officers are comfortable with a pump shotgun but many have never held an AR, which means the majority choose a shotgun for home defense.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

I have the option to carry one or the other, or both. I choose to carry both. My dept issue AR is in the trunk and I carry my personal 930spx up front with me (my dept allows us to use our personal AR's and shotguns but not sidearms). I work for a very small dept in a fairly rural area, however we are in between two sizable cities.

As far as being at home, there is a shotgun and a pistol next to my wife in our bedroom and two pistols next to me (one is my carry gun, and the other is my CZ-75 which is a tack driver). That should be enough fire power to get to my safe. We also live on a private road, have a gate to get into our driveway, two driveway alarms and cameras mounted at the gate and around the outside of the house. Add in the 3 very large dogs and I think that we are pretty safe.

 

[jdh]

I had plenty of room in the car for one of each. Pick the proper tool for the task at hand.

 

[herrwalther]

A police officer I know in a high crime area has one of each in his patrol car. If he can go a month without using either, it was a good month.

 

[12Pump]

While discussion of LE firearms seems to be verboten on THR, it is of interest to the average man to see what firearms are preferred by those who see many more life endangering moments than the rest of us.

That was basically my reason for creating this thread. I've been comfortable with just sticking with 12ga., but the exploding popularity of the AR15 makes me wonder if I'm behind the times and should move up to something more capable. I'd like to, but the price of doing so is just overwhelming. I could buy one, but then I'd be afraid of something happening to it, and not want to shoot much because of the price of the ammo, and then I see LEOs talking about how they prefer 12ga. for the most part (as do the majority of people responding here) and it gets me to wondering if the general firearm-owning populace is a little deceived about what is better.

From what I've read here so far, I've become slightly more comfortable with sticking with 12ga.

 

[Warp]

That was basically my reason for creating this thread. I've been comfortable with just sticking with 12ga., but the exploding popularity of the AR15 makes me wonder if I'm behind the times and should move up to something more capable. I'd like to, but the price of doing so is just overwhelming. I could buy one, but then I'd be afraid of something happening to it, and not want to shoot much because of the price of the ammo, and then I see LEOs talking about how they prefer 12ga. for the most part (as do the majority of people responding here) and it gets me to wondering if the general firearm-owning populace is a little deceived about what is better.

From what I've read here so far, I've become slightly more comfortable with sticking with 12ga.

Shotgun buck/slugs cost more than 5.56/.223.

I think the problem here is that you have or intend to have a shotgun without putting the shooting/practice/training into it.

 

[12Pump]

I think the problem here is that you have or intend to have a shotgun without putting the shooting/practice/training into it.

One thing I like about shotgun aside from price concerns is the fact that it's reliability can be determined much easier as well. An AR15 needs 100-200 rounds fired if new to determine what ammo and mags are reliable, plus to break in the barrel (from what I've heard, anyway). With a 12ga., most functions of the gun can be tested without even firing a shot. Load up the mag, hold down the slide release and then rack the slide repeatedly until empty. This tests feeding, extraction and ejection. The only thing left is ignition reliability. With a pump shotgun being mechanically simpler, it gives me much more confidence it will work when needed too.

 

[Warp]

One thing I like about shotgun aside from price concerns is the fact that it's reliability can be determined much easier as well. An AR15 needs 100-200 rounds fired if new to determine what ammo and mags are reliable, plus to break in the barrel (from what I've heard, anyway). With a 12ga., most functions of the gun can be tested without even firing a shot. Load up the mag, hold down the slide release and then rack the slide repeatedly until empty. This tests feeding, extraction and ejection. The only thing left is ignition reliability. With a pump shotgun being mechanically simpler, it gives me much more confidence it will work when needed too.

You don't need to break in the barrel.

You should, IMO, be putting a lot more than 100-200 rounds through ANY firearm you intend to keep around for potential defensive use.

You sure as heck, again JMO, shouldn't be trusting a firearm for defensive use without even firing it.

And I disagree with your explanation. You can NOT reliably test extraction on unfired rounds. Firing the round expands the case and absolutely positively can have a significant impact on how well (if at all...) the round extracts.

 

[12Pump]

You sure as heck, again JMO, shouldn't be trusting a firearm for defensive use without even firing it.

I agree with you on that. I was just saying (erroneously) that most functions of a shotgun can be tested in a way that doesn't actually involve firing--with my reason being that a shotgun's operation is manually done by the shooter rather than the ammo. Of course I'd also have to fire it to get familiar with how the gun handles under actual operation.

 

[lemaymiami]

In my era (1973 - 1995) shotgun was pretty much the only choice we had... In my last ten years we added an SRT and those individuals were allowed their choice.

I always preferred a shotgun -mainly because I was never in the open countryside - I worked in a suburban/urban area and all of our armed incidents were pretty much close quarters affairs (south florida). If I worked out west or in any wide open area I'd want both since there's times when one or the other is clearly the best choice for the job... I will say though that many, many times I was completely ignored when I pointed a pistol at one bad actor or other. It was a very, very rare instance when anyone ignored a shotgun at close range..... The one shot I fired on the street in all those years was to take down a young man that ignored several opportunities with a shotgun pointed his way....