Question: Use of the Sling in Competition

[230RN]

Question: Is it now normal practice for the military to not use the sling in the standing position?

The attached cropped and scanned photo is from page 20 of the August 2007 edition of The American Rifleman. (The scan lines were mostly in the original photo --sorry.) The rifleman, according to the caption, is supposed to be demonstrating the standing position with the M14 Service Rifle.

I am not very familiar with modern military rifles, and as far as I can tell, the rifleman is not using his sling.

I can see that the protruding magazine might interfere with use of the sling, but having never tried it, I can't know this.

I was always taught to use the sling when possible, even if it were only in the "hasty sling" (or "hunter's sling") configuration while shooting, especially in the standing position. When I was competing with the Garand in High-Power matches, of course, "slinging up" was a moderately complicated affair with the full military sling of those days.

So. Is this photograph really representative of current military use of the sling in high-power competition?

 

[M2Pilot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not very knowledgeable about this. It seems that I have read that use of a sling will change the POI if the rifle has been sighted in with a bench rest. I guess the increase in stability with a sling doesn't offset this difference.

 

[10X]

In a 4 position competition you are allowed the use of a sling in prone, sitting, & kneeling. You aren't allowed to use the sling in standing/off hand.

 

[One of Many]

Notice this guy is standing at an angle to the target, and his back is arched to the point that stability may be compromised due to recoil. I have seen some shooters have to take a step backward to prevent falling after firing.

I have seen a demonstration (on TV) of a method that has the shooter more squarely facing the target, and leaning slightly forward at the waist, and there is no danger of falling backward with this method. It was reported to be easier to maintain a stable sight picture using this method, and it is quicker to acquire the target. The problem is that there is not as much support from the torso, so greater upper body and arm strength is required.

Is this new method in use by any target shooting teams, or is it primarily for hunting and defensive use?

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I don't think that soldier is using the sling. It is just on his gun.

Looks like textbook standing form to me.

 

[taliv]

i've asked a lot of people over the past few years and no one has been able to explain why it's not allowed in standing. go figure. i think i even started a thread about it here.

one of many, his position is correct and i don't think teaching on it has changed much over the years. you can't see in the pic, but his feet are probably perpendicular to the target, which is directly over his left shoulder, +- 10 degrees.

he's leaning back to put the center of gravity (adjusted since he's holding a heavy rifle) directly over his feet.

recoil will be in the direction of his right shoulder, not backwards. so he's in no danger whatsoever of falling over. its' quite stable.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

The only answer I've ever heard to why the sling is not allowed in standing is that "it wouldn't do you any good anyway"? That may be true, but then why is it not allowed?

 

[W.E.G.]

Competition rules for NRA highpower rifle prohibit the use of a sling for support during offhand firing.

In NRA matches, the sling may be detatched during offhand firing.

CMP matches (most notably "leg matches") use NRA highpower rifle rules to govern the majority of the event. However, in CMP matches the sling must be attached during offhand firing, but may not be used for support.

Whether the sling it makes any difference for some shooters matters little. I watched USMC Gunnery Sgt. Julia Watson shoot a perfect 100 offhand with an M14 in the National Trophy team Match several years ago. Maybe she would have had a higher X-count.

Her scores didn't drop when the Corps gave up the M14 either.

 

[230RN]

^^^^ Neat pic!

10X:

In a 4 position competition you are allowed the use of a sling in prone, sitting, & kneeling. You aren't allowed to use the sling in standing/off hand.

Well, dang! How about that!

One of the reasons I use the sling is to keep it from swinging back and forth.

And the "leanback" was so you could steady your left (or forend) arm against your hip or torso.

And as far I'm concerned, even a hasty sling is to your advantage in any standing shot, either afield or on the range.

My memory going back forty years must be failing and faulty, but as I recall, all the competitors back then used the sling in standing. Huh!

 

[Deanimator]

In a 4 position competition you are allowed the use of a sling in prone, sitting, & kneeling. You aren't allowed to use the sling in standing/off hand.

+1

I shot a lot of service rifle matches in the '80s and '90s and we were NEVER allowed to use the sling in the standing.

As I recall, there were even rules regarding the use of removeable magazines as a palm rest.

 

[230RN]

I was competing in the mid-sixties. I wonder if they changed the rules, I am misremembering, was I firing in a different style of high power match, or what? I'm almost sure I recall guys there with palm rests and adjustable hook butt plates, what-not.

Oh, well. They say when you get old, you've always got your memories.... but I wonder about that now. And the only artifact I have from those days is my old shooting glove.

Well, disunirregardless, I will not take a shot without using a sling if I can. I've even had one on my shotgun for decades, but of course that's for carrying, not for accuracy.

Well, thanks for your comments, all !

 

[Justin]

I'm almost sure I recall guys there with palm rests and adjustable hook butt plates, what-not.

National Match guns have a lot of leeway regarding what is allowed vs. Service Rifle where the gun is supposed to resemble a stock configuration.

 

[peacemaker45]

Two things. One, the soldier in the pic isn't shooting offhand. He's in the classic standing position. More stable for one shot that offhand, but slower for working the action, or getting a second shot.

Two, if memory serves, a sling is only really useful when the left arm is supported, such as prone, kneeling, sitting, etc. doesn't accomplish anything in standing or offhand.

~~~Mat

 

[EShell]

Yes, it is normal practice to not use a sling standing in military and other marksmanship pursuits.

Regardless of the various sets of rules. . . A sling doesn't buy you anything in the standing position and only adds yet more muscle tension to the equation, since it only locks your off-elbow, as designed, if the elbow is anchored on something, like a knee (kneeling/sitting) or the ground (prone).

 

[Oohrah]

Nope properly used and taught in the late 50s Marine Corps,
Slings were used in off hand shooting. Now claimed to be of
no use, I do not agree and notice a difference with either the
hasty or looped sling. No clue why this should not be an
option in all shooting offhand,

 

[Gun-Ther]

I checked out the picture. My sling seems to let me look more masculine when I hold the rifle.

 

[30Cal]

You can now grip the mag on the M14 but not on the AR (I don't know why that is). The support arm can now contact the body as well (when the photo above was taken, that was forbut). There are lots of artificialities in competition.

The marksmanship units used to shoot match rifles (M70's and such) until the sixties when it was deemed that they would henceforth shoot the Service Rifle at the National Matches.

 

[230RN]

Dick Tylock:

Nope properly used and taught in the late 50s Marine Corps. Slings were used in off hand shooting. Now claimed to be of no use. I do not agree and notice a difference with either the hasty or looped sling. No clue why this should not be an option in all shooting offhand,

Yeah, thanks, Dick Tylock. And I agree about shots being more precise with the sling. Perhaps in mobile shooting (i.e., combat) slinging up may be inappropriate or even dangerous, even when the hasty sling is used.

I wonder, though, if the change to "no-sling," if you will, was a result of having more full-auto arms in the field. Never having fired full-auto, I would suspect that no sling is needed for spray and pray.

(As opposed to the single, contemplated, disciplined, at-one-with-the-gun precision aimed shot.)

EDIT: I just noticed he has a sling pad on his left upper arm... now I are more confozzled than ever.

 

[30Cal]

EDIT: I just noticed he has a sling pad on his left upper arm... now I are more confozzled than ever.

Because in 10 minutes, he'll be firing sitting and later prone rapidfire and then prone slowfire. All in the same coat.

 

[Howard Roark]

Here is a link to a timely article written on shooting off hand for the CMP by SGT Brandon Green. He won the Nationl Trophy Individual in 2006 and is a super nice person.

http://www.odcmp.org/1007/default.asp?page=USAMU_STANDING


Notice that the rifle is under recoil and the ejected brass is between target 19&20.

 

[Hanzerik]

When I shot smallbore in the mid/late 80s as a teenager, my standing looked just like ^^^

The reason I leaned back, with left hip forward was to get into a position where I could bring my left elbow in as much as possible to get a steady rest on my hips. Right elbow is the same way. You don't want your extremities sticking out where they will wobble/flop around. Keep them arms tucked in tight and you will have a steady rest.