Question: what's the best payment method for online private gun sales?

[BringHomeTheBacon]

Both Venmo and PayPal don't allow firearms transactions. Personal checks are not very secure and they can bounce and you can get hit by your bank for a returned check fee. Debit and credit cards are for dealers, merchants. This leaves money orders. Is there a PayPal-like online payment service that is trustworthy and gun-friendly both? I just received a USPS money order from a gunbroker buyer yesterday. I deposited it at my bank today and it is being held for a couple of days before the total amount of the money order becomes available to me. I read about GunBrokerPay but I don't trust it. It asks for your username and password to your online banking to link a checking account with it. No, I don't want anything to do with it. GunBrokerPay is only good for GunBroker.com anyway.

Money orders are time-consuming and some buyers complain about having to pay with them. People complain about having to wait in line at the post office to buy one. I had to wait 20 minutes in line this afternoon to deposit my buyer's money order because the ATM won't accept money orders for deposit. The bank teller told me that these money orders are printed in such a way that ATM's can't read the dollar amount of them like an ordinary check. I can't deposit MoneyGram money orders at my ATM also. The money order industry doesn't make their paper products ATM-readable. My bank put my money order on hold. I was told the funds might be available in full tomorrow or Tuesday because Monday is a holiday. I have to explain these hang-ups to my gun buyers via email. I won't dare ship a gun out until I have secured the buyer's money in full.

There must be a smart, fast, convenient and secure way to do online gun transactions.

 

[Steve_OH]

I've often said that someone smarter than I should make just this sort of app. Wouldn't need to be for guns only. Just gun friendly. NRA? GOA? Trump? Somebody!

 

[BringHomeTheBacon]

I've often said that someone smarter than I should make just this sort of app. Wouldn't need to be for guns only. Just gun friendly. NRA? GOA? Trump? Somebody!

Venmo and PayPal are obviously both anti-gun. If you try to use either of them for a secret gun transaction, somebody could be out his money if a dispute ever arose. During a dispute you probably would have to disclose the nature of the merchandise in the transaction being disputed. Somebody in the dispute might just get slick and say it was "laptop computer" that was failed to be shipped to him after paying rather than a Browning rifle. I don't know how deep Venmo or PayPal digs into dispute investigations. I'm sure they would find out it was a gun involved if it was supposed to be shipped to an FFL who never received it.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have used my paypal card to buy guns at the store.

 

[BringHomeTheBacon]

I have used my paypal card to buy guns at the store.

I did not know there were PayPal cards. I just have the online PayPal service linked to a checking account and a credit card. I've bought and sold things (non guns) online via my PayPal account.

 

[Megawatt maker]

I've only used USPS money orders only. Yes, they are a bit of a PITA, but they are the most secure method of payment. There is a bit a fraud going on in everything these days, but USPS MO to use for firearm payments add even more security, because you are using an FFL for transfer...and if they use a forged USPS MO...then they just got a charge of mail fraud...hence there is rarely any fake ones used for firearm transactions.

Just takes a little time...but you get your cash with the least BS.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have a PP debt and credit card.

 

[medalguy]

I like POMO for payment. When you receive one you can call USPS at 866-459-7822 to verify the money order. Yes your bank, depending on your relationship with it, may hold the funds a day or two, but you can know with certainty that it's good as gold. Otherwise you can get set up with Square to accept credit cards but there's still some risk there too.

 

[vintovka]

PP and Venmo are disappearing from many on line net sales. Bet All CC follows as word is out (or clarified) on $600 1099k limits. Any small seller that takes ANY electronic (read traceable) payment may be in for a nasty surprise next January.

 

[dogtown tom]

When I sell online, I prefer bank checks or certified checks. Both can be verified as to validity and amount easily. They cost the buyer about the same as a USPS money order.

I've only used USPS money orders only. Yes, they are a bit of a PITA, but they are the most secure method of payment. There is a bit a fraud going on in everything these days, but USPS MO to use for firearm payments add even more security, because you are using an FFL for transfer...and if they use a forged USPS MO...then they just got a charge of mail fraud...hence there is rarely any fake ones used for firearm transactions.

Just takes a little time...but you get your cash with the least BS.

Being a USPS money order has nothing to do with it. Any form of payment can be mail fraud....its the fact that it was mailed that makes it mail fraud. Forged or counterfeit money orders or checks are another crime.

 

[Megawatt maker]

When I sell online, I prefer bank checks or certified checks. Both can be verified as to validity and amount easily. They cost the buyer about the same as a USPS money order.



Being a USPS money order has nothing to do with it. Any form of payment can be mail fraud....its the fact that it was mailed that makes it mail fraud. Forged or counterfeit money orders or checks are another crime.

True, but the USPS has its own enforcement...and they get a little more pissy with forge postal money orders...and they have national jurisdiction.

 

[vintovka]

True, but the USPS has its own enforcement...and they get a little more pissy with forge postal money orders...and they have national jurisdiction.

I have been having doubts about USPS of late. If their enforcement powers are anything like their current services we are in real trouble.

 

[Megawatt maker]

I have been having doubts about USPS of late. If their enforcement powers are anything like their current services we are in real trouble.

lol...I do tend to agree with you a bit. The post office has its ups and downs.

I sold a few rifles on GB recently, and had my FFL ship them, she told me, she still trusts the post office over UPS and FedEx..because they "lose" shipment all the time, even some firearms. She says she has never lost a shipment with the post office, but their tracking system is a joke (shipments arrive before she even gets a tracking number to work), and they are sometimes ridiculously slow...but they always get there.

The post office has never been the model of efficiency (its government..how could it be? lol), but its still damn hard to beat for the price.

 

[vintovka]

Fedex has really been slipping too. Between the weather and having to speak Tagalog to get things done with them its nerve wracking.

 

[BringHomeTheBacon]

I use ShipMyGun.com for the shipping labels. I have to ship a gun out to my buyer this coming Tuesday at 3 PM. I can't use the normal UPS Store for firearms. Here in Lawton, Ok, I have to use the UPS Hub and that stupid thing is only open 3-7 PM, M-F excluding certain holidays like Presidents Day. If only the UPS Store would accept guns, I could have shipped the man his gun this morning. $49.01 to ship a silly little handgun (about 4 pounds package weight) from SW Oklahoma to Hamburg, New York. The buyer paid for this of course. When I have shipped long guns, they only charged about $25.00. I think UPS and FedEx use the pricey overnight or two-day service for handguns and the long (cheaper) ground rates for long guns. A non-FFL cannot ship handguns from the post office.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Add in the new 1099 tax situation and I'm going mostly US postal money order now. Not as easy as electronic stuff but at the same time a bit less scammy and also not going to get a 1099 for it.

Pretty sure Square is also anti gun.

On the positive side, with the 1099 change and the scams going on all the time I think cash will make more of a comeback which is good.

 

[twarr1]

Bottom line, USPS money orders are the safest alternative to Cash

 

[dogtown tom]

Bottom line, USPS money orders are the safest alternative to Cash

Not true at all.
No more "safe" than a bank check.

 

[Will Munny]

I have used USPS money orders. Not perfect, but with at least some method of recourse.

Regarding PayPal, etc. their ability to discriminate about transaction types has always struck me as unusual and something of an outlier in the financial industry. It would not be unprecedented for Congress to regulate such transfers to prohibit discriminating against any legal class of goods, but somehow this has not happened. So that leaves us with the USPS money order.

 

[twarr1]

Electronic money like Paypal isn’t money according to the US Treasury and IMF. When you send money through PayPal you’re trading federal reserve notes for PayPal’s dollar denominated promissory notes. PayPal has absolute control how those are used.
I use PayPal for an example but all forms of electronic money, checks and money orders are not real money, not legal tender and are not and do not represent, obligations of the Federal Reserve.

 

[Megawatt maker]

Not true at all.
No more "safe" than a bank check.

Checks bounce...USPS money orders dont

 

[vintovka]

bouncing a check nowadays will cost you dearly

 

[Speedo66]

I have been having doubts about USPS of late. If their enforcement powers are anything like their current services we are in real trouble.

I sold a non firearm item to someone on this site. I put it in a two day Priority Mail small box, the post office receipt estimated the delivery date to be five days later, and it was. Sad, there wasn’t even a pretext of giving you what you paid for.

There is lots of phony paper floating around; “certified checks”, money orders, personal checks, etc.
USPS money orders seem to be the safest, maybe the crooks are wary of screwing with the gov’t.

 

[dogtown tom]

Checks bounce...USPS money orders dont

Someone doesn't know the difference in a bank check vs personal check.

 

[dogtown tom]

There is lots of phony paper floating around; “certified checks”, money orders, personal checks, etc.
USPS money orders seem to be the safest, maybe the crooks are wary of screwing with the gov’t.

USPS money orders are faked quite often. They buy a real money order, wash the amount and print over a larger amount.

Anything can be counterfeited. Thats why a seller should only accept payment in an easily verifiable form of payment. No matter whether its a money order or bank check you should verify the validity before depositing in your account.

Bank checks (also called cashiers checks) are drawn against the banks account.
Certified checks are drawn on the buyers personal account and the bank will put a hold on the amount of the check because they guarantee those funds will be there.
Money orders (no matter who sold them, are guaranteed funds) There is no legal difference between a USPS vs MoneyGram vs WalMart vs 7-11 money order. Ease of cashing depends on which one you bought.
Personal checks are drawn against the buyers personal account and nothing prevents him from depleting that account the day after you deposit his check.