questions about 1858 conversions

[drclark]

For some reason, an 1858 conversion has really caught my eye. For the time being, I will probably shoot smokelss "cowboy" loads since I shoot mostly at an indoor range. I have read about the krist vs r&d cylinders, having to grind a loading port, only using lead bullets and "cowboy" loads, etc. Currently leaning toward the .44cal/.45 colt so as to avoid the hollow-base/heeled bullet issue with the .36cal/.38spc conversions.

It seems like alot of trouble to go through and I also realize total cost will be more than buying a new/used blackhawk or new-vaquero. I do have to admit, I like the idea of it as a do it yourself project and the idea of having a "modern" firearm with out the paperwork, transfer fees, required lock, etc (just because I can mentality).

Then I ran across a factory "conversion" such as http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/58NewModArmyConv.htm

My local shop has one for $450ish and I have read that these guns are made by ubertti and can be converted back to a blackpowder cylinder if so desired.

My first question is whether or not the cimarron "factory" conversion is limited to the same "lead-bullet only cowboy" loads that home BP conversion would be? I recognize that a cowboy load is nothing to sneeze at but am more concerned about using modern jacketed bullets and the ability to buy standard .45 colt ammo off the shelf.

Second question is whether or not the .38 cimarron "factory" conversion bore is such that it can used std .38 spl jacketed ammo or is it also limited to lead only hollow base or heeled bullets?

Bottom line, is the "factory" conversion beefed up in terms of strength and quality of the steel to handle modern loads for the calibers they're sold in or are they just the same BP frames & barrels with a factory installed conversion system?

If the cimarron "factory" conversion can digest modern smokless loads and copper jacketed bullets, and being lower cost would probably sway me toward the cimarron gun vs. the DIY path.

Thanks,
drc

 

[Perk]

Far as is known, you’re going to have to fire lead bullets, vice the jacketed ones, in any of the repro’s – or, the originals. Where heavier loads are concerned, don’t go there, either. These guns are built to fire black powder loads in an open atmosphere. You can stretch that – and the gun, only so far.

If you’re still interested, the $450 gun, you’re eying, isn’t exactly the K-Mart blue light saver. At $169 for a new Remington ’58 , from Cabela’s and the cost of the ported gate conversion, from Krist. You’ll be saving only the labor of making your own port.

Doubt that the Cimarron conversion will be able to eat jacketed bullets at standard powder charge. Wiser heads, here, will be better able to answer, than I.

Sounds, though, like what you really want is a cartridge arm, which looks like an old '58 BP revolver. (Specifically, because this is what you wrote.). 'D love to hear about such. ‘M still looking for a ’58 repro air gun, myself.

 

[Tommygunn]

vice the jacketed ones

"vice?"
Um, I am assuming you mean to say that one should not fire jacketed bullets through a BP revolver converted to fire cartridge rounds.

 

[Perk]

Yep, that's what I mean. Nothin' gets by you.

 

[Tommygunn]

Just never seen that word used that way before is all.

 

[drclark]

Yes, ultimately I want a cartridge gun that looks like an 1858 conversion. I am not yet ready to jump into BP revolver shooting but would consider BP cartridges for now.

Pietta 1858 from cabelas is $169 ($199 regularly)
Krist conversion cyl w/ gate $274ish
ejector rod assy $124ish
Plus tax & shipping is somewhere between 550 and 600 plus labor to grind the port and re-blue, etc.

Cimarron "factory" conversion is $450ish plus taxes, xfer fees, etc so I would expect it to comeout around $500-520ish total.

So I believe the cimarron would be a bit cheaper in the end or at best come out even.

I understand about the lead only cowboy loads in the "drop-in" conversions of the BP pietta 1858.

The question is: does anyone here know if the cimarron conversion is simply a factory converted BP frame/bbl or is it made to a higher standard since it is sold from the factory with .45colt stamped on the bbl? As such, I would think that it would have to be proofed up to spec .45colt loads or cimarron would have a ton of lawyer issues if some guy bought off-the-shelf .45 colt ammo and it blew his gun up?? (maybe there ought to be an official ".45 cowboy" spec).

Thanks for the help,
drc

 

[Perk]

Errrrr, Doc. You’re more’n welcome to correct me, if I’m wrong, here. Heck, everyone is. But, am not all too sure that the plunger, you see pictured on the Cimarron page, is what you’re looking for on a cartridge arm.

Unless I’m missing something, you’re going to have to shell out some extra for the proper Cartridge ejector rod assembly.

Just mentioning this, by way of cost, is all.

Good Hunting.