questions about Norinco T-54

[lsudave]

Hello all, I have a pair of Norinco T-54 (Tokarev) guns. They're both chambered in 9mm Luger. They are the type that uses the traditional 7.62x25 magazines, I have 2 with spacers and 2 original magazines which feed ok. Couple of questions:

how to tell the age of these handguns? I got one NIB from a gun show, serial number in the 13 millions, and picked the other up on auctionarms.com, much older,serial is in the 3 million range. does this mean 10 million were manufactured between the 2?

2nd, I'm interested in the conversions available. I know it's a matter of just a new barrel to 'return' to 7.62 tok, but I see fewer barrels available right now. is this caliber drying up now?

Also, I've seen references to a conversion to 38 Super; apparently they originally were imported with barrels for both 7.62 and EITHER 9mm Luger or 38 Super. All such references were from the early 90's and I can't find newer info. Does such a barrel conversion exist? Are any available? is there any info on whether such a conversion would be safe in that frame? and if so, would it also be a simple swap of barrels?

 

[lsudave]

ok, following up my earlier post.
Talked to a local gunsmith, he said if any Norinco T-54s were chambered in 38 Super they likely were headed to South America instead of North America due to the restrictions on military ammo down there. Said the actual gun should be able to handle any of the various hi-powered 9mm loads up to and including 9x23 Winchester, with different extractors as well as barrels needed (forgive my ignorance about such, the rims are different on some). Of course, that is pure conjecture and not to be taken as any endorsement or legal advice. His view was that the Tokarev was a very sturdy design, and the 7.62x25 tokarev was a high pressure round to begin with, so you'd still be in the safe range.

 

[lsudave]

BTW why the hate???

I'm curious as to why there's so much scorn and hate directed to Tokarevs. I've often seen them ridiculed, derided as no better than a Lorcin or other crappy gun. Yet the design is acknowledged to be almost purely Browning inspired, they are by all accounts very solidly made. Granted, it's not a Glock, but it is what it is: a 70 year old single action 8 round design, light and thin, capable of firing 9mm+P or 7.62x25 with the simple swap of a barrel.
I just wonder sometimes about it- on another thread here, someone showed pics of some guns he bought, and people commented on them. one was a Colt 1903 and was called a damn fine looking gun, and another was a norinco 213, which was called ugly- by the same poster. yet, the 2 guns look almost alike..?

 

[Vonderek]

I don't hate em. I wish I'd bought a couple Polish Toks a few years back when they were selling for $120.

 

[Mike_In_BC]

You in Canada man? I am, if so then you can get barrels from "marstar" or "Lever Arms(vancouver)" they are if I remember not very expensive. I have one with one 7.62 and one 9mm barrel, and all I do to switch is swap the barrels.

I have wondered about the tok haters as well, I haven't seen any here at THR but at the range people like to mock my "joke-a-rev" until they witness the muzzle flash and long range accuracy, then they leave me alone.

 

[lsudave]

No, I'm not in Canada (and I've looked wistfully at the Marstar site for a couple years ). I'm down in Louisiana. I've had these guns several years now, got the 1st one in 01, it seemed there were more online and in the gunshows then. That one was NIB as stated (I assume new anyway- its sure seemed it, nice and black, stiff hammer-cock) for 129 with those huge grips, 2 clips, and the rod. Another 20 for some military grips and I was fixed up. 40, actually; I paid once for a pair of grips at an online site and they never came..! but had to get some military grips, so I picked them up elsewhere after a dozen ugly emails. Surprisingly the first grips showed up 10 months later, and not long afterward I saw an unspecified 9mm at auctionarms for an ungodly low price (I recognized it as a tok, the guy had what looked like pieces of green slate tile for grips, he'd just wrapped duct tape around them to hold, I s**t you not!). I bought it for 69, plus FFL and had it shipped to the local gunsmith who checked it out for me-and who btw was very pleased when I pulled those military grips out of my pocket. That one came with 2 9mm barrels, so now I have 2 toks with 3 9mm barrels (and a couple extra ugly grips).
I'd always planned on getting a 7.62 barrel but that got sidetracked til recently, and now I see they're getting scarce. love these guns, and definitely gonna get the barrel conversion. maybe I can swap one of the 9mm barrels somewhere, even throw in those custom grips...