Questions about wounds

[ghost squire]

As an ex-mental health professional I have to make comment on this statement (not attacking the person whoo wrote it, just wanting to add my two cents). I hope you and others here do not believe this. Many veterans who have seen/done horrible things talk about it all the time. They just want people to listen and validate that they are not a bad person. They just did unpleasant things that were required of them. You also have the ones that talk about it with a bravado that makes them seem souless. This is also another attempt at defusing their own grief and feelings of guilt. This statement is akin to "people who talk about suicide never really do it". We all know that is wrong because the vast majority of people that attempt suicide talk about it before hand. Often extensively. Point of the story. When a vet or anyone else that has been through such things talk about it, do not doubt them or blow them off...listen. It is all they really want.

Good luck trying to break the myth of the quiet hero/professional. I don't think anyone on here wants to hear about it!

I know the Israelis took all their troops after they retreated from Lebanon and sat them all down for a week or two and had them talk to each other and share experiences. Compare this to Vietnam where after we retreated our troops were given no such therapy and were spat on at the airport.

Talking heals.

Too bad its almost a taboo in America because of cowboy movies and whatnot.

Whatever, I guess its not my job to convince people out of their cowboy hero fantasies. But I feel sorry for any traumatized person that doesn't want to talk about it to a professional or comrade.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Good luck trying to break the myth of the quiet hero/professional. I don't think anyone on here wants to hear about it!

I know the Israelis took all their troops after they retreated from Lebanon and sat them all down for a week or two and had them talk to each other and share experiences. Compare this to Vietnam where after we retreated our troops were given no such therapy and were spat on at the airport.

Talking heals.

Too bad its almost a taboo in America because of cowboy movies and whatnot.

Whatever, I guess its not my job to convince people out of their cowboy hero fantasies. But I feel sorry for any traumatized person that doesn't want to talk about it to a professional or comrade.

Yes, it is sad sometimes how these heros feel like they have noone that wants to hear that maybe they are not "ok" with things or that it is somehow "unmanly" to share these emotions. Alot of people want to believe that these guys are made of steel and do not need or want a compasionate ear. It is no wonder so many WWII vets turned to alcoholism.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

When I was working tv news, just after university, I covered a shooting on Buffalo's east side... guy took both barrels of a 12 gauge nearly point blank to the gut... he was dead... blood, fecal matter, at tissue was all over the street. I covered another shooting where a gang member was shot with a small caliber; he was laying in the snow, looked like he was asleep. The cold, and his down jacket prevented any visible blood; just goose-down from the jacket. When I was overseas, a buddy accidently shot an m-60 into a steel bulkhead. The disintegrated round came back and grazed his head... he was bleeding like crazy, and I though he'd be shot full on in the head at first. When we wiped away the blood, it was a tiny little gash, but head wounds bleed like crazy. check out rotten.com for good gore pics, to see what bang-bangs and boom-booms can do to squishy little creatures like us...

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Yes, it is sad sometimes how these heros feel like they have noone that wants to hear that maybe they are not "ok" with things or that it is somehow "unmanly" to share these emotions. Alot of people want to believe that these guys are made of steel and do not need or want a compasionate ear. It is no wonder so many WWII vets turned to alcoholism.

 

[depicts]

talk it out???

call it what you will, PTSD, shell shock, whatever. There are thousands of vets daily who discuss their experiences in one on one counseling and group counseling throughout the country.

It may be true that they don't discuss these matters with NON VETS, but vet to vet it is a lot of help. I have been a member of a combat vet PTSD support group at the VA hospital for over 8 years now, and it has helped a lot. I wish there had been something in place when I first came home, other than the getting spit at. You had to hold it all in then. No one wanted to hear it, and if they did, they didn't know what to say.

The big question, the "Did you ever kill anyone"...is so intrusive, can be so painful for so many. I wish people would think about it before they asked, but like many of you said, people just don't know. If you want to know how terrible it is, watch a veteran cry when the flag goes by in a parade, or taps is played, or at a ballgame, when they play the star spangled banner. You might begin to get the picture

Didn't mean to get so far off thread, but this is pretty gore filled for me.

 

[Byron Quick]

Talking can help some people. Others have come to terms with the past and talking can dredge up things better left alone. A friend and I got to talking about Vietnam one day. He told me he was there and I asked him where. It was the first time I ever heard of Ia Drang. This was probably about 1980. He didn't go into graphic detail at the time. The next day he told me that he had nightmares about it the night before for the first time in ten years. He's never mentioned it again. Neither have I. I've seen no signs of mental anguish or mental deterioration. And I've worked in the field of mental health.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Byron...Bingo!

Depicts said:

>There are thousands of vets daily who discuss their experiences in one on one counseling and group counseling throughout the country.<
****************

Yeah. Tried that too...down at the local VFW. We'd wind up gettin' stupid drunk and it led me and a couple others down the path to alcohol and drug addiction. When I finally sobered up three years later, I decided to let that sleepin' dog lay. Clean and sober for thirty years, and ain't goin' back.

 

[depicts]

Different storkes!!!!

Yes I know for some people it is an ordeal, and more damaging to talk about it than not. I do know that therapy renews the feelings at first, makes things worse than better for awhile. For me it was that way.

I know other friends however, who have tried the counseling route...and given it a fair chance, and still find that their trauma is so deep and painful that they just try to ignore it.

I won't bother telling war stories here, just say that some things that happen are so horrible they can hardly be imagined by the average person. More than once I've heard stories of places like La Drang and others, where only a few walked out, if any. If you were one of the few left, that burning memory never leaves, despite all the Medications and therapy you can swallow.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. God knows the pain some of our Veterans have suffered, and the price they have paid for us to live our lives. I hope all these Brother and Sister Vets will be at peace in their minds some day. I pray for them every day and wish I could do more

Edited to add....Tuner, having beers at the VFW and telling war stories is a lot different than getting help from a trained PTSD Doctor at a VA clinic. Continued group sessions with a physcologist/physciatrist, with no alchohol in the room is a different world than sitting at the VFW. I know what you are saying, but they have made great strides in PTSD treatment since 30 years ago. Staying sober and clean helps, but the trained counseling, now with decades of experience, is a different world.

It's not my intention to nag you Brother Vet, I thank you for your service. I wish I could offer you something better is all.

 

[Father Knows Best]

FWIW

My brother is an LEO. He once shot a guy four times at near contact distance (arm's length), using .40S&W Hydra-Shoks out of his Glock. The hits were in a line running from his abdomen to his left shoulder. Not only did the guy live, my brother said there really wasn't much blood at all. The bad guy had stabbed my brother in the thigh just moments before (which is what prompted the shooting, of course), and my brother's wound was reportedly a heck of a lot more graphic.

He's seen any number of shooting vics, both breathing and not.

These days my brother mostly works on some kind of traffic accident investigation team (called "STEP" or somesuch, I think). He tells stories of some horrificly gorey stuff he's seen, and it's all from MVAs -- not shootings. I don't let him tell me stories about MVAs, anymore, because they give me nightmares.

 

[jungle]

MVAs will subject you to energy that makes even a .50BMG look trite. Up the speed to aircraft levels and you get liquified and dispersed. Finding a bone fragment bigger than an inch or enough to put in a baggie can be tough.

 

[444]

Talk about hijacking a thread.
Wow.
He asks about the effects of a bullet and gets lectured about mental issues.

 

[depicts]

Off track

whew, I for one really did get off subject.

Someone describe a bullet wound to me, quick!!!!

 

[BullfrogKen]

Thank you. The only reason I asked is because I don't like gore & was wondering if I ever shot someone would it be real graphic. I haven't even been hunting. The only shooting I've ever done was at empty 12oz soda cans. I'm sorry if I upset folks, Yet from reading some of your posts, I don't think the upset people even read my original post. I don't watch CSI or ER. I have no "morbid curiosity". I just wanted to know what to expect.

V4,
Aren't you being a bit disingenious? I mean, I don't want to bring ugly things up, but you're asking people to dredge up some life altering events and deal with horrors rather forgotten to satisfy what purpose?

I can recall you stating in one of your first dozen posts here that you accidently shot and killed your brother with a shotgun not more than 10 years ago.

No doubt you'd rather not recall that memory? Neither would most folks who are responsible for the tragic ending of a life, be it a car collision, an accident at the range, or a purposeful act fighting for survival.

I can understand an elementary school student ignorantly asking the policeman at the public relations classroom presentation if he's ever killed anyone. . . . But . . . . you ought to know better.

You crossed a boundary of social convention here bringing this up in a manner as if you knew nothing of it. Its wrong, and having taken a life yourself, you should understand, and have no need to ask such things.

 

[Taurus 66]

I was just thinking. For those of you who have ever shot someone or been shot, is it usually very gorey? Does it depend on the caliber? Would you describe it like "Big Jake" gorey or "True Grit" gorey? I ask because I'm not a gore person. I don't even watch modern suspense movies because their just trying to show all the blood they can. I watch old movies like "Rear Window". I apologize if it's a dumb question.

I believe a well placed shot in the center of chest would be equivalent to what I witnessed as a 16 year old when my old man had sudden cardiac arrest. He was gasping for air once every .. oh .. 20, 30 seconds, his lifeless eyes were rolled up under the eyelids, lips were black and skin was a dark blue color. A bullet puncturing the heart or severing a main life-line, like the aorta or brachiocephalic or subclavian arteries would bring about an instantaneous life-threatening drop in blood pressure. A gunshot is like an overblown aneurysm. No more positive blood pressure to the brain means "lights out". The after effects (blood & guts) is actually not the bad part. It's watching someone you shot die slowly right before your eyes. The experience will be imprinted in your mind and it live with you forever, serving angel and devil alike. Fortunately I never had to shoot anyone and really REALLY hope I never have to for the remainder of my life.

 

[V4Vendetta]

please close this topic.

Close this thread. I've evidently upset people & that was not my purpose. My apologies.

 

[1911Tuner]

Closed

As you wish, lad.