questions on a remington single shot rifle, I think?

[crestoncowboy]

A friend bought a remington single shot and wanted to know if it was safe to shoot and maybe a value. I have very little knowledge about these guns and wanted to know what you guys thought.
When he brought the gun the only markings on it were on the barrel it says 38-55wcf. i knew it to be a remington, and when I took off the rear peep sight (guessing this was drilled and tapped by someone other than remington?) confirmed this. I dont think the barrel is factory because it has no remington or proof mark or anything else but the caliber. also the rear stock doesnt look like any old remington I have seen and the butt plate says bishop. So did he buy a remington action with a lot of mixed parts or did I disappoint him for no reason? I did tell him I wouldnt be afraid to shoot it as its very solid and built like a tank, it weighs 12 lbs

edit. also if any more pictures or information would help I will try to reply quickly

 

[MikeJackmin]

At first glance you have a custom-built target rifle, based on an old Remington Rolling Block action. These are popular in black-powder cartridge competition.

It might be just OK or it might be very nice; it might be safe for modern smokeless loads or it might be best with black powder instead. Chances are, it's a pretty nice rifle but it all depends on the details.

We have an expert or two on the forum and hopefully they will stop by before too long.

 

[crestoncowboy]

the barrel is very heavy I have a box of ammo for it he bought. I am not afraid to fire it at all. I wont tell him its safe till I fire it though. thanks for the reply

 

[tark]

Well, I'm no expert on rolling blocks, but I own two and I have made two out of blocks of steel.

Your gun looks like what MikeJackmin has described, a custom built target rifle in 38-55. That caliber was one of the Chamberings the number one rolling block actions employed. I can't tell from the Patent dates pic whether this is a smokeless action or a black powder action, but it doesn't matter in this caliber. Either one is more than strong enough for any sane 38-55 load.

The barrel is probably not original If the rifle left the plant as a #1 sporting rifle, the barrel would have been marked as to caliber. It could be a military contract rifle that was converted to this caliber but that would have meant a lot of work making a useable extractor.

While we are on the subject of extractors, does the rifle have a sliding bar extractor, or a circular hook that rotates as the breech block is opens? If it has the latter, it is a #1 smokeless action. These were chambered in just about every caliber short of a 30-06.

There is one other possibility. The #5 sporting rifle was chambered in 38-55. These rifles were made in the smokeless action and are extremely rare, with less than a thousand being made in a few short years of production. It would be sad if this were the case, because #5s can fetch upwards of five figures at auction.

But it is what it is. Tell your friend to enjoy it and shoot the snot out of it.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Here is the extractor, it rolls back with the action

 

[tark]

That LOOKS like a #1 smokeless action. The extractor has obviously been modified to function with the 38-55 round, so it is probably a milsurp rifle to begin with.

I am somewhat surprised by the blued finish. Military rolling blocks had case hardened receivers and the would not blue well. It looks like someone spent a lot of time on it with a soft buffing wheel, and it looks like it has been hot blued in a caustic tank, which is pretty much the standard these days.

I don't know what to tell you as to value. The gun has been altered and almost nothing is original so it is worth whatever you could get for it should you sell it. Not much of an answer, wish I could do better. I would just shoot it and enjoy it.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Myself, nor my the owner sell anything, he was just wondering how bad he got burned I guess. I'll shoot it whenever I get time. What kind of sights did it originally have? Any idea on its age. Also the writing on the tang is actually that bad it's not just a bad picture, so maybe they did that polishing so they could blue it?

 

[MikeJackmin]

As for time frame, most likely late 1800s to maybe 1910 or so. As for value, if it shoots well I think $500 would be in the ballpark. Some might disagree, but you won't see many rolling blocks is good shooting condition for any less.

Here's a fairly typical example of what a military rolling block would look like:

http://www.allans-armory.com/images/guns/062614-A_0001-web.jpg

Remington sold them all over the world, in many different calibers and configurations. Most of them were pretty well used up over the years.

The actions were quite tough and they survived, long after the bores were shot out and the stocks cracked. These were used to make target rifles like yours, and they are not cheap. They are great fun to shoot and easy to reload for. With cast bullets and reasonable care the bores last forever.

 

[BCRider]

My own rolling block was based on a Swedish military conversion As such it does not have the lettering on the tang. But it was never colour case hardened. Could it be that only the rifles sold as sporters were CCH'ed?

It most certainly has been rebuilt at some point. Lookng at the dings and the way the lettering has been smeared by the buffing wheel suggests that it had a hard life. But it looks pretty good now other than the spots on the right side.

Barrels for these seem to all come with twist rates that do well with 250 to 300gn relatively soft cast shooting with a lower pressure load that spits them out at around 1400 fps.

There's also the issue of how the bore size for .38-55 seemed to change over time. So your buddy will certainly want to slug the bore to figure out which bullets will be best for his barrel. Lever rifles that came out later tend to have need .379 bullets while a lot of the earlier single shot barrels and modern single shot barrels do better with .376 to .377. With this variation slugging the bore and measuring for himself is the only way to be sure.

There's also short and long brass available. So one almost needs to cast the chamber to tell.

 

[Jim Watson]

Your guy did indeed buy a Remington action with an assortment of parts.
Remington made a tremendous number of Rolling Blocks, most on foreign military contracts.
In the 1950s and 1960s a lot of them came home much the worst for wear and in funny foreign calibers like .43 Spanish and 11mm Egyptian.
They sold CHEAP, many made into lamps.

You show one such that has been sporterized in some small shop.
It was fitted with a .38-55 barrel, buffed hard, and blued.
It was stocked with a pretty piece of wood from Bishop, poorly installed.
The tang sight is probably an Italian reproduction.

I hope it shoots, it has no collector interest and is not fine custom work.