I acquired a revolver that was thought to just be a novelty piece but upon some further research I think what I have is a fast draw gun. It is built from a Ruger Blackhawk flat top frame with a smooth aluminum barrel, an aluminum grip frame, and an up turned hammer. The frame shows the caliber as .357 but it looks like the cylinder and barrel are .45. Does anyone do this type of competition anymore? Can the gun be restored to original condition without breaking the bank?
Quick draw gun
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Varminterror
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When you say "back to original condition," do you mean back to a safe firing condition for center fire rounds, as in be able to fire .357mag again?
If that is the question, then probably not. If you send it back to Ruger, you'd be into it $150-200 for the barrel, $200+ for the cylinder, then about $75 into a new trigger, hammer, pawl, and locking bolt - and of course, you'll be into it for a lot of labor. That is, if Ruger even agrees to take on the job, which I'd bet they will not. If you take on the job yourself, you can pick up a take off barrel for $50-150, a take off cylinder for $75-125, and then action parts new or used for $50-75. You'd have a lot of smithing labor to time the action parts, then have some lathe work to set the barrel back, then set barrel gap, re-cut the forcing cone...
Am I correct in assuming the rear sight has been removed? How much, if at all, has the top strap been reprofiled? It may not take a rear sight if it has been too significantly modified, or might not be worth the labor cost to weld and rebuild if it has.
So the answer to the question - can it be rebuilt without breaking the bank - is maybe, but probably not.
If that is the question, then probably not. If you send it back to Ruger, you'd be into it $150-200 for the barrel, $200+ for the cylinder, then about $75 into a new trigger, hammer, pawl, and locking bolt - and of course, you'll be into it for a lot of labor. That is, if Ruger even agrees to take on the job, which I'd bet they will not. If you take on the job yourself, you can pick up a take off barrel for $50-150, a take off cylinder for $75-125, and then action parts new or used for $50-75. You'd have a lot of smithing labor to time the action parts, then have some lathe work to set the barrel back, then set barrel gap, re-cut the forcing cone...
Am I correct in assuming the rear sight has been removed? How much, if at all, has the top strap been reprofiled? It may not take a rear sight if it has been too significantly modified, or might not be worth the labor cost to weld and rebuild if it has.
So the answer to the question - can it be rebuilt without breaking the bank - is maybe, but probably not.
BobWright
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As to the "Quick Draw" game, I'd suggest you contact CaryC over on the Ruger Forum.com or maybe even here. He is pretty authoritative on the subject.
As to returning the gun to original firing condition, check with your gunsmith rather than Ruger. Ruger won't handle extensively modified revolvers while most gunsmiths can, and will, do such work. And likely the cost won't be prohibitive. (Define "prohibitive.") But likely a new barrel and cylinder will be required, at least. Many fast draw gun have had their cylinders case hardened which poses a danger with full power ammunition.
Bob Wright
As to returning the gun to original firing condition, check with your gunsmith rather than Ruger. Ruger won't handle extensively modified revolvers while most gunsmiths can, and will, do such work. And likely the cost won't be prohibitive. (Define "prohibitive.") But likely a new barrel and cylinder will be required, at least. Many fast draw gun have had their cylinders case hardened which poses a danger with full power ammunition.
Bob Wright
Rockrivr1
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If you're looking for a shooter you'd be better off selling this and buying a shooter. There are several CAS and SASS forums where I'm betting you could sell that off fairly easy.
Blkhrt13
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How can we have a thread with no pictures?
Kendal Black
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Nope. Keep the trick gun as a curiosity if you like, and buy a Blackhawk .357. You will be ahead in dollars and satisfaction.
Varminterror
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He'll need more than just a cylinder in barrel. If it's done up with an aluminum barrel and the cylinder bored out for 45 cases - which I'd bet are offset spec for specialty cases with 209 primers - then I'd be certain the action work is done to convert it to ONLY time when it's ran hard. Most fast draw revolvers are modified such they don't tear themselves apart - meaning they are timed "slow" with incomplete carry, such the cylinder's momentum is what carries it to positive lock up, rather than the pawl. So if you run one slowly, it won't actually carry all the way to lock up, and the pawl will lose contact while the cylinder is still floating prior to lock-up.
Personally, having paid for smithing work on Rugers, having done a lot of customer paid work on Ruger's myself, and having owned fast draw revolvers (briefly, found out quickly it's not my game/crowd), I can't imagine any smith would take on the job at a price significantly lower than that of a used Blackhawk. As I described above - $100 for the cylinder, $75 for the barrel, $75 for the action lockwork, $100 for a smith to set back and clock the barrel then recut a forcing cone (which is a steal), you're $350 into a revolver which could be purchased brand new - and one which won't carry any repair support from the OEM. Let's say he picked it up for $300 (which is a steal), we're talking $650 for a revolver which could have been bought for $400 used. And in my mind, I think these prices would have to come together like the stars aligning to keep it THAT cheap. I've had times when I've had to pay $150 for Ruger cylinders, and have had to pay over $100 to get the right barrels from time to time. I've seen smith's charge $100 just to recut a forcing cone... So it could end up far worse than the +$350 I'm describing here.
The dude would be far better off to sell the fast draw gun for what it is, to someone looking for that kind of thing, then use the proceeds towards a different Blackhawk.
BobWright
Member
Varmniterror:
My point was, more or less, that anything was possible with a Single Action provided you have a sound frame to begin with. All it takes is a frame and money to start with.
Bob Wright
My point was, more or less, that anything was possible with a Single Action provided you have a sound frame to begin with. All it takes is a frame and money to start with.
Bob Wright
If a do-it-yourself project for someone thats handy and doesnt mind tracking down affordable parts, it may be OK. If paying for the work, I agree, its not a wise investment. Ive found some very affordable parts, but I wasnt in any hurry to find a specific thing at the time. If a years long timeline doesnt bother you, (it wouldnt me) it may be OK to try.
I saw a 10" barreled Super that was rusty and stripped at a gun show, I realized I had almost enough parts to get it to run just sitting in my parts boxes, less only a cylinder. If you can get those type major parts from gunsmiths that do work on them and have take-off parts around, it helps. I couldnt get into the gun at the right price, the guy thought the 10" barrel was made of some other material than blued steel apparently based on his price.
I saw a 10" barreled Super that was rusty and stripped at a gun show, I realized I had almost enough parts to get it to run just sitting in my parts boxes, less only a cylinder. If you can get those type major parts from gunsmiths that do work on them and have take-off parts around, it helps. I couldnt get into the gun at the right price, the guy thought the 10" barrel was made of some other material than blued steel apparently based on his price.
The frame seams solid, the timing appears to be fine and I like to tinker with things so I think I will try to make it a shooter again. Being a three screw the parts may be a little more difficult to find but I have nothing but time so I will see what happens. Any suggestions for parts sources.
BobWright
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GunParts Corp. (Numrich Corp) is a good source. Also try the classifieds on Rugerforum.com
Bob Wright
The hammer is probably the more difficult part to source. The internals were basically the same for the Old Army percussion revolver, which was in production much more recently than the centerfire 3 screws, so small internal parts may not be that bad to locate if needed. Cylinders and barrels should be interchangeable with newer stuff.
Edfit: it just occurred to me an Old Army hammer may possibly be able to be altered to fit a Blackhawk by grinding the hammer face flat. The Old Armys had a protrusion to hit the percussion cap through the frame. They may be otherwise similar. 3 screw Super Blackhawk hammers should work if its the large frame size. Only difference was the lower wider hammer spur.
Some specialty gunsmiths that make large caliber guns on Rugers may have barrels and cylinders. Ive bought barrels for $35-ish or so. I bought a 45 acp cylinder for $65 I think at a gunsmith that did large caliber alterations. Parts don't always drop in. I checked 3 or 4 cylinders in 3 guns and found one that fit one gun. I may have one of the only old size Vaqueros with an acp spare cylinder.
If checking cylinders, study up on it a bit, but one that's snug going in the frame front to back is easier to fix than one that's too short. Measure the frame window top to bottom and see if its the older smaller frame or the later larger full size frame. That will determine which cylinder, and possibly which barrel shank diameter, IF the smaller frame guns used a different barrel shank. I do not know if they did. Likely somebody here knows that detail.
Edfit: it just occurred to me an Old Army hammer may possibly be able to be altered to fit a Blackhawk by grinding the hammer face flat. The Old Armys had a protrusion to hit the percussion cap through the frame. They may be otherwise similar. 3 screw Super Blackhawk hammers should work if its the large frame size. Only difference was the lower wider hammer spur.
Some specialty gunsmiths that make large caliber guns on Rugers may have barrels and cylinders. Ive bought barrels for $35-ish or so. I bought a 45 acp cylinder for $65 I think at a gunsmith that did large caliber alterations. Parts don't always drop in. I checked 3 or 4 cylinders in 3 guns and found one that fit one gun. I may have one of the only old size Vaqueros with an acp spare cylinder.
If checking cylinders, study up on it a bit, but one that's snug going in the frame front to back is easier to fix than one that's too short. Measure the frame window top to bottom and see if its the older smaller frame or the later larger full size frame. That will determine which cylinder, and possibly which barrel shank diameter, IF the smaller frame guns used a different barrel shank. I do not know if they did. Likely somebody here knows that detail.
Crunchy Frog
Member
Actually what he's looking for is a local chapter of the Cowboy Fast Draw Shooting Association. A revolver modified in this way would not be suitable for cowboy action shooting.
BobWright
Member
Ron Power Customs makes and sells hammers fo rolder model Ruger Blackhawks.
Bob Wright
Bob Wright
In the mid ‘70s, I lived in Tucson and was slightly involved with the folks at the Old Tucson western stunt show. They got tired of repairing the revolvers the stunt men used; the guns were dropped (sometimes off buildings), thrown, and otherwise abused. They finally went to Ruger Super Blackhawk revolvers with the barrels cut down and fitted with aluminum grips.
It sounds like your gun might be something of that sort. If you can get 4-in-one blanks in the chambers, that’ll be another clue.
It sounds like your gun might be something of that sort. If you can get 4-in-one blanks in the chambers, that’ll be another clue.
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