Quintessential AK

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holdencm9

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Been thinking I would like to add an AK to the collection. Mainly just to have one, because the Kalashnikov is one of the most famous, recognizable, mass-produced weapons of the past century. It feels wrong not to have one. I may not shoot it a lot (although nothing I own is a safe queen!) and I may only ever get the one. As such, out of currently available options, what would you say best represents the most quintessential AK?

I would assume
7.62x39
Wood furniture
Fixed stock

Beyond that I have no idea. Milled/stamped? Chrome/not? I am just starting to learn about all the variants and options on different AK types. Any input is greatly appreciated!
 
Take this for what it's worth from someone who's been collecting AK's and its derivitives for over 30 years: For a first time buyer, don't worry too much about exactly what, just pick something in one of the categories below, based on your budget and interest in authenticity, and enjoy it. All of 'em will go BANG every time.

To start, the classic stamped receiver AKM with wood stock in 7.62x39 is the most widely distributed AK version of all time. The more conformal to that design your selection is, the more baseline it will be as an example. Everything else is a variation on that. Start your inevitable collection with one and then build from there... unless you have magic superpowers of self control and can stop at just one!

OK, on to how to sort 'em out:


Categories:

1: Preban factory AK's, which are receiver and parts assembled in the original factory and sold as an unmodified unit to a buyer here. Expensive and rare. Got cash? Buy a preban rifle. it'll be a good investment, and will be as authentic an AK as you can buy. Bring $2K to start.

Here's one example:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=386446009

Personally I think that this one is overpriced by about 2X, but at 1/2 the asking it's still pricy.



So where does that leave the rest of the rifles?

Two currently available familes exist here:

1: Parts sets imported from Europe and completed here in the USA using a US receiver. These can range from home-bent flats built up by Bubba to high quality custom rifles. In the high quality custom rifles they can range from very carefully built replicas of original military AK's with duplicated markings and features to fantasy-tacticool AK's that the Russians would laugh at. Look for a quality receiver. Nodak Spud is my supplier of choice, with these being a known quantity at the core of any parts-build. There are other good receivers, but if you stick to these you have a hard time going wrong.

Here's an example of a small-shop "authentic" build of exquisite quality:

http://www.tworiversarms.com/Tabuk.htm

Here's another "unknown builder" parts build with all the hallmarks of a good, authentic rifle:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=389914092

There are others, I just picked these as examples.


2: Factory postban rifles that are originally built up as single stack magazine rifles or "sporting" rifles and then modified here into large magazine capable or military-style rifles. In the former category are WASR-10's, PAP's, etc., and in the latter bunch are modified Saigas, Arsenals, etc.

This is a sample of about what you'll expect in one of the above:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=390937111

Within this price-level of rifle, you can really just wander down to the LGS and buy one. Stay away from plastic and "tacti-cool" nonsense. NONE are collectable, they are just like a toaster. Buy one.


Willie's advice to the thoughtful first time buyer who wants a quality military issue representative rifle at a reasonable cost:

I would look for a good guality small-shop build of a good military parts set on a Nodak Spud receiver. This gives you a very high quality receiver of known origin, and a completely stock military rifle parts set assembled on one will offer a very authentic AK. You'll need to do some searching, but it'll not be too hard to do. That MAADI parts build that I put the link up above for would be a great choice.

If you do not have the time or knowlage to select one of these small-shop rifles, I would look at the variety of Yugo's that are imported and "fixed" here to make them large mag capable AK's.


With "many" AK's in my collection, including most of the preban versions available (Valmet, Galil, MAADI, Norinco) as well as a bunch of postban "milspec parts and US receiver assemblies" one of my very favorite shooters is a Yugo parts set built on a Nodak Spud receiver. But that's just my choice. Personally I would avoid the run of the mill import rifles, be a bit more selective in your search, and find what I've described above.


Willie

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I'd say a stamped receiver would definitely be a quintessential requirement. Some say the milled is the original and higher quality. But from a functional standpoint the stamped receiver is every bit as good and what the AK was originally intended as. The milled receiver was really just a temporary place-holder until they got the stamping process figured out.

A good quality replica of a underfolder AKMS would be my "quintissential AK"
 
Short of joining the Russian army, my Russian Arsenal 74 is the closest one can come to an actual service rifle AK of today.
 
^ ^^

Hardly the quintessential AK though.


"Quintessential: Serving as the typical example, the pattern to be duplicated, the sample that most closely and perfectly represents most common example, the example by which others are considered for comparison"


Read between the lines as to what the OP is looking for. You have a very fine modern rifle, but it's not the baseline from which all others are derived or compared. Not even the caliber is the classic one.

No, the old fixed wood stocked 7.62mm AK is *the* classic design that shouts out "Viva la Revolution!!"



I knew when I wrote my screed above that I would be followed by legions of owners who will tout their modified Saigas, Arsenals, and other much more modern rifles. It's as predictable as the sunrise.

They are all GREAT rifles.

But they are not....the....quintessential..historical..classic: Avtomat Kalishnikova, model of 1947, Modified (AKM).


Willie

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Thanks for the responses so far, guys!

So it sounds like a stamped receiver is good to go, that was a big question I had, since I hear all about how awesome milled is, but they are also crazy expensive. I definitely don't want to spend a lot, I just want a representative of the AK family to fill out my collection (although maybe I'll get bit by the bug and end up buying a few more down the road....who knows?!?) Willie you nailed it with showing the definition. For instance, AK47 on wikipedia, what is the main photo? Someone says AK47 and what instantly pops into most people's heads? Et cetera.

I want one preferably in the $700-800 range, that when you see it, you just think "AK" instantly. It doesn't have to be the best in anyone's eyes, but just represent the family well. I want it to be functional too, so no canted sights or horrific machining, but then again, it won't be a frequent shooter, SHTF, HD, or anything gun.

Willie, I definitely like the look of the Tabuk you linked, but the price is a bit steep. I don't mind a little patience and digging to find something similar for less. The MAADI also looks good, are any commercial retailers putting anything like that out or is it mostly gunbroker and armslist options? Alternatively, Fleet Farm advertises Century PAP for $629 and WASR for $699. They both have "the look" but are these solid buys for the money? Again, I'd go up a hundred or so to get a decisively better weapon but don't want to shell out $1k+ and am trying to resist the urge for instant gratification by just stopping by FF after work and going home with one :eek:

Thanks again ya'll!
 
Another accepted definition is "the purest or most perfect example of something". Yet another is "the essence of a thing in its purest and most concentrated form". What it does not mean is historic or classic and what is quintessential is not static but it is certainly subjective. Also, what is quintessential to the general population is not necessarily what is considered quintessential to collectors or enthusiasts. Also, the OP said "AK", not "AK47". I would say a critical characteristic that makes SGL Arsenal AK's the most quintessential is being made in Russia as nothing says AK more than Russia. Now a wood stock AKM in 7.62x39 may be the most typical example of an AK in popular culture, for the collector who lacks unlimited funds, Arsenal AK's are the closest one can get to the most perfect and purest example of an AK.
 
JustinJ,

I definitely get your point, so maybe from your perspective let's call it the "Classic look" or most typical AK (but not necessarily authentic or historic). My definition of quintessential definitely is more in line with "most typical representation" or as the old joke goes, whatever picture they show in the encyclopedia :cool:. Of course it is subjective though. For example "Shark" on Wikipedia shows a grey reef shark, you may think a Great White is more quintessential and I may think a Tiger shark, but we can all agree that a whale shark or hammerhead probably isn't the quintessential shark.

Also since this will be my first (and maybe only) AK, I would sort of consider myself to fall into the category of "general public." I am just starting to learn the basics of the various types, options, brands, etc. But I do not rule out the possibility that I will soon become an AK enthusiast! Maybe let's forget quintessential and call it "Starter AK that looks like an AK oughta! (IMO ;))"
 
Wow, good post by Willie.

Ya know, OP, I see a lot of used parts AKs being sold right now for cheap, so I'd watch out and avoid those. I don't see any problems with either example you posted that are for sale. You'd probably be good to go with either one.
 
JustinJ, you are confusing quintessential with penultimate:

The wood stocked 7.62 is Quintessential. The Arsenal is Penultimate.

You need one of each (at least) :D

(Tell your significant other that Willie told ya to buy another. Trust me here, would I lie to you?) :evil:



"So it sounds like a stamped receiver is good to go, that was a big question I had, since I hear all about how awesome milled is, but they are also crazy expensive."


They aren't awesome... just milled. As a shooter you will see zero difference between the two. If the milled were really superior in any measurable way, they would be made that way now. For all practical purposes there aren't any differences. You can listen to internet babble, or be realistic. I've got both, shoot both, and I've got no preference. If I want a sample of a Chinese Type 56 it'll be a milled rifle (have one). If I want a Tabuk it'll be a stamped (have one). It's just one variety or another, neither being better or worse.

The Tabuk is a wonderful collectable. With tha said, there are a lot of other high quality, low volume, authentic builds available if you look for them. There are no high-volume name brand builders of things like the MAADI parts sets built on a Novak Spud receiver, so it's not like you get to order one from a distributor, but at the same time they are available if you seek them out. Use Gunbroker to search, and if you want to PM me with descriptions of what you find I'd be happy to offer opinions on what you come up with. Right now if I wanted one that Novak-Spud built MAADI parts set rifle I linked to is about as good as it comes. Heck, I might buy it myself.

The fresh-import Yugos, no matter the exact model, are functional and workable rifles. I'd just prefer a real warhorse even if it's warhorse parts built on a good receiver in the USA. It'll always be a bit different than the run of mill Century import, and both more interesting and likely a bit more collectable as supplies of parts slow down and come to an end.


Some time ago I wrote up a much longer version of what I put up this morning. I'll try to find a link and it might make interesting reading. I'd be happy to write a sticky for this often asked question if the staff wanted to have one. I've no dog in the "what's best" fight, as I more or less have one of each in my collection. I like them all.


"Alternatively, Fleet Farm advertises <snip>"

Giving away that you live in my neck of the woods! Two brothers split up a company. One is Farm & Fleet and the other is Fleet & Farm. Huge difference, eh? :D I'm a Farm & Fleet man, myself.



Either the PAP or the WASR are the plain jane, non-collectable, bread and butter AK's that start out as a European single stack magazine "sporting rifle" and which are then modified here in the USA to open up the mag wells and add enough US parts to make them legal. For me... "Meh"... OK, I'll take one as a gift but I'm not excited even for free. They will work, and you'll love one if it's all you have. Between the two <scratches head>... I'd take the WASR. Or the PAP. Both are fine.



Willie

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^^

It means there's still room for just one more improvement before it's finally done.

In Willie-Speak that means that Bubba can still add one more "thing" to an Arsenal. :D



Really, the AK platform will continue to see incremental upgrades for the rest of all of our lives.

"Ultimate" is unreachable. "Penultimate" is all we can hope for.


Willie

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Ha, who would have thought this thread would improve everyone's vocabulary!?!?

Willie, thanks again for all your advice. I did swing by FF and did NOT walk out with an AK but I DID buy some 7.62x39 ammo so when I eventually do get one I can have a supply to run through it. They actually didn't have anyone behind the counter, which is unfortunate since I was hoping to at least handle one, although maybe it is good I didn't get tempted. I will definitely take you up on your offer for PM advice as I start digging through gunbroker to see what's out there (although you may have opened yourself up to a can-o-worms!) and will definitely update the thread when the purchase is made!
 
I don't know how much you are looking to spend, but on the economical a Romanian SAR-1 is very close an AKM in appearance. SAR's had AKM-style dimples in the receiver to position the magazine, whereas a lot of WASRs and such don't.

Here's the one I had, with a Hungarian 20-round magazine.

attachment.php


The one thing you could do to make it more authentic would be to thread the muzzle and add an AKM-style slant brake, but unfortunately the slant brakes also make the rifle less accurate.

I loved that rifle, but I had to sell it to pay the deposit on my residence...sigh.
 
The quintessential AK, IMO, consists of:
-Stamped receiver
-Dimples
-Wood furniture
-45 degree gas block
-Slant brake
-Parkerized finish
-7.62x39

Honestly, if you want a rifle to work like and AK and look like THE AK, then I'll wholeheartedly second the SAR-1 suggestion. Or even a WASR of decent quality. They work, they look as "AK" as it gets, and don't generally break the bank.
 
Inebriated, I would say I'd have to agree with your assessment. Dimples was one thing I didn't really notice before, but now that I've been looking at a bunch, they just seem to complete the look.

Ben and jehu, thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look for SAR-1's along with Willie's recommendations but it is good to know a decent WASR or PAP could be a backup choice if I get impatient!
 
For me, the quintessential AK-74 (5.45) is Soviet, circa early to mid 1980s.
http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/pro25.html
http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/pro17.html

On the other hand the quintessential Romanian (AIMS - wire folder, or fixed stock)
http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/pro19.html
One of my Romy AKs is configured just as above. I had it originally dressed up in plum Soviet-style furniture. It just seemed more fitting to retro it to the Romanian AIMS config.

The closes to the typical (quintessential) current issue Russian rifle would be the SGL-31, IMHO. But looking at pricing at these, I could never justify that kind of hard currency on an AK (FWIW, I picked up my SGL-21 for $575 - the prices now seem to be double that).
 
You are kinda asking 2 things here: the quintessential AK and the one you want to buy (in the $600-800 range).

The quintessential AK is going to cost above that price (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure they're well above $1k easily.

For your first AK, just get one of the mid-level rifles in your budget like a Yugo O-Pap or a converted Saiga47. But beware that the bug bites hard, and you will be addicted before you know it :D

Now if money was no object, buy those that Willie recommended above. :)
 
Inebriated, I would say I'd have to agree with your assessment. Dimples was one thing I didn't really notice before, but now that I've been looking at a bunch, they just seem to complete the look.

Ben and jehu, thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look for SAR-1's along with Willie's recommendations but it is good to know a decent WASR or PAP could be a backup choice if I get impatient!

I normally avoid AK threads (and try to overlook AR threads) but this is a good one.
Never really paid the dimples any attention. Still don't.
For me an AK has to:
Be Cheap
Have a wood stock
Have a Slant muzzle break
Chambered in 7.62x39
Be Basic, Proletarian even

With that, the WASR is quintessential enough to scratch the itch if I want cheap and basic.
 
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