Rail Light or Handheld?

[WrongHanded]

Handheld? Yes! (Or sometimes No.)

WML? Also Yes! (Or also sometimes No.)

A handheld is great for searching, and for identifying someone or something we think might be a threat.

A WML is great for putting light on a threat right now.

Some people seem to think a WML light encourages people to point their gun at stuff. It only encourages idiots to do that. Everyone else still understands that they're holding a gun.

Some people seem to think they can do just as well in a combat situation with a handheld. But I doubt most of those people have considered the draw time on their non-dominant side with a handheld flashlight. The obvious answer is that they already have the light in their hand, but I doubt that's always true.

I carry a flashlight a lot, but not so much in the middle of a summer day. I like a WML in the winter, but can go without in the summer for concealment purposes.

For home defense, I certainly prefer a WML on my nightstand gun, right besides a powerful handheld. If I find a threat with the handheld, I'll drop it and transition to the WML.

I also vastly prefer a WML for camping. Because the woods get properly dark at night.

 

[Telekinesis]

Any tactical advantage, if there is one, to having a WML on a CCW pistol is outweighed by the potential legal risk of being arrested and prosecuted for felony aggravated assault if you point your loaded pistol at somebody that you aren't legally allowed to point it at or a witness(es) reports you pointed your gun at somebody when you used the WML in attempt to identify your target or "search" with it.

This is 100% a training issue. If you wouldn’t point your gun at it without a WML, you shouldn’t be pointing your gun at it with a WML. This is not a legal risk of having a WML, it is a legal risk of being an idiot with a gun.



Maybe it seems like a minor philosophical difference, but if one is carrying a gun with a mounted light it should not be thought of as “I HAVE A LIGHT attached to a gun”.

It should be “I have a gun, and if I need extra light I don’t have to fish a handheld light out of my pocket”.

This is also why a lot of people who carry a gun with a mounted light also carry a handheld flashlight.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

This is 100% a training issue. If you wouldn’t point your gun at it without a WML, you shouldn’t be pointing your gun at it with a WML. This is not a legal risk of having a WML, it is a legal risk of being an idiot with a gun.



Maybe it seems like a minor philosophical difference, but if one is carrying a gun with a mounted light it should not be thought of as “I HAVE A LIGHT attached to a gun”.

It should be “I have a gun, and if I need extra light I don’t have to fish a handheld light out of my pocket”.

This is also why a lot of people who carry a gun with a mounted light also carry a handheld flashlight.

The problem is, you can't recreate the extreme stress of a life or death encounter, so you never get to test your hypothesis that pointing your muzzle at an innocent is a training issue, when your sympathetic nervous system is activated and you're amped up on adrenalin and it's affecting your thinking and judgment.

 

[Old Dog]

My experience pretty much mirrors @Night Rider. (see post #24).

If one reads Givens' notes on his study of night-time/low-light DGUs by citizens, it's actually pretty compelling.

I can remember only a couple occasions as a patrol officer where a WML was clearly my best option (searching in dark buildings for known assault/shootings suspects). Last couple military deployments, had Surefire Scout lights on an M4, but never needed 'em (was not a door-kicker then). As a citizen, I have a WML on one pistol and one carbine, but even on the darkest of nights, there's usually enough ambient light inside my house and around my property to not require a flashlight and I have the advantage of knowing the territory. And can turn on floodlights inside and outside remotely. So my bottom line, I guess, is that as an old guy living out in the woods, I can't foresee too many situations in which I'd be wishing I had a WML.

 

[kje54]

I do hand held..............

 

[tarosean]

Did you Not just put a very nice Bullseye in front of your face, In The Dark?
Just saying.

shine a thousand lumen plus light in your eyes in the dark and report back what you can see after.

 

[tws3b2]

shine a thousand lumen plus light in your eyes in the dark and report back what you can see after.

You walk into a dark room. Where is he? Maybe over here? Or, maybe over there? Is the thousand lumen light in his eyes? Or, Is it a very nice target for him?
Sometimes, Just sometimes, It just doesn't work the way it does on tv.

 

[tarosean]

You walk into a dark room. Where is he? Maybe over here? Or, maybe over there? Is the thousand lumen light in his eyes? Or, Is it a very nice target for him?
Sometimes, Just sometimes, It just doesn't work the way it does on tv.

and sometimes our fantasies run amuck. It’s not whack a mole and we are not talking 1970’’s Maglights. I know every square inch of what I would be defending with lethal force.
You can light up an entire room at low and ready now-a-days.

 

[The Night Rider]

I do hand held..............

View attachment 1158940

What is that knife please?

 

[kje54]

What is that knife please?

It kinda looks like a cheap Chinese KBar takeoff. Other than that I have no clue, I'm just laughing at someone else's comical creation.

 

[The Night Rider]

You walk into a dark room.

Why are you walking into a dark room?



Every room in my home that isn't a bedroom has lights like that in it. If I never have to clear my house at night I will also never stub my toe going to the bathroom at 3:00 in the morning.

Going by my past experience, literally I even had to clear a crypt one night. If you live in Colorado Springs it's in the basement of the Evergreen Chapel in Evergreen Cemetery. They have space in there for like 12 coffins for a funeral. 0300 in the basement of the chapel with my boss there still was enough ambient light that I didn't need a flashlight.

The only places that I remember being that there was zero ambient light were checking electrical substations in rural settings. I'm not going to walk around a substation in the dark with my gun in my hand using the weapon mounted light even pointed at the ground for navigation.

The bottom line is, even at work, even in the middle of the night, in the course of 15 years there was never a time where I wished I had a WML. There was never a time where it would have made a difference.

Now I'm retired. I am never going to clear another building again as long as I live. You can do whatever you want but I just don't see the need I just don't think it's worth the money that I would have to spend.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

If you already have handhelds what would be the disadvantage to having a second light on the weapon?

This is the way

 

[luzyfuerza]

It's dark. You are looking for the bad guy in the dark. You don't know where he is in the dark. You hold your gun up in front of your face and turn on the light so to see and to be ready for the bad guy in the dark.
Did you Not just put a very nice Bullseye in front of your face, In The Dark?
Just saying.
Do what you gotta do.

This is a real risk, and an example why sound training is essential. Not just a nice suggestion.

Searching with a flashlight is not as simple as turning on your light and walking around.

 

[luzyfuerza]

For lots discussion about low-light tactics, techniques, and hardware, check out this sticky in S&T:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/low-light-tactics-techniques-and-procedures.788712/

 

[Tallball]

I am not a LEO. I don't clear buildings.

My dogs don't need a light to know exactly where someone is.

There's a flashlight next to my bed for various reasons.

 

[kidneyboy]

I know every square inch of what I would be defending with lethal force.
You can light up an entire room at low and ready now-a-days.

Yep. My house is something like 1500 square feet. I know all the sight lines and every creak in the floors.

 

[Armored farmer]

Lots of huffing and puffing on this subject.
Dedicated nightstand gun? Why not have a light on it? You don't have to turn it on if it's going to be detrimental.

I find shooting in the dark much easier with a weapon light.
You don't know what situation you will find yourself in. You might not be able to use your free hand or saunter across the room to flip on a light switch.

 

[LeftyRed]

Both of my G45s have TLR1s on them. Was trained with them, used a WML before I was trained with them. Always had enough spill to see with weapon pointed at the ground. Never worried about misidentifying something cause I KEEP MY FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER when doing so. I also don’t just grab the pistol and use it as a flashlight. If the weapon is in my hand, there is a reason why, not just for convenience.

 

[AK Hunter]

If it's rail mounted just about anything you hold the light on is in the kill zone. I wouldn't want to aim my gun at one of my kids getting a late night glass of milk. It also gives the intruder a place to shoot at. If it's a hand held LED light most are strong enough to toss into a room on strobe, it will illuminate the whole room, disorient the perp to where they will be looking at the light not at you.

 

[Armored farmer]

If it's rail mounted just about anything you hold the light on is in the kill zone. I wouldn't want to aim my gun at one of my kids getting a late night glass of milk. It also gives the intruder a place to shoot at. If it's a hand held LED light most are strong enough to toss into a room on strobe, it will illuminate the whole room, disorient the perp to where they will be looking at the light not at you.

I completely understand not pointing a weapon mounted light at friend or family member.......but let's not even think about what might happen if you can't see clearly.

 

[ExtremeSquared]

The only annoyance I've found with rail-mounted is that you need one that can be locked off if you empty-chamber bag/pack carry. Otherwise all the lights are powerful enough now that they will melt a beam path through nylon, and a rail-mounted light is 99% guaranteed to turn itself on from being jostled.
Arguably some of the same risk exists with flashlights, and I have had that problem before, but it can be avoided.

 

[WisBorn]

I would like to thank everyone that replied to the thread. The best advice is too have both.
I was in the "I don't want to point a gun at someone that I care about" crowd.

Now to find a small light for the night stand gun, my Kimber R7. If I like it maybe one my G20.

 

[buck460XVR]

Then you're doing it wrong. With the gun pointed safely at the ground the powerful lights available will light up a room almost as well as turning on the lights. And outdoors will allow you to see quite some distance. You can easily assess the situation before pointing the gun at anything.

Might be wrong for you....not so for me. This is one of the most prevalent themes here on the forum....."it's my way or the highway". If you don;t do it the way I do, you are wrong. But, one only has to research and see that both methods are correct. I learned that a WML was mainly for PID and not a search tool. That what's handhelds are for.....and it works for me. If a WML works better for you, who am I to get on a high horse and say you are "wrong!"? For most HD scenarios, we are not actively leaving the house and searching outside(unless it is a possum or raccoon). We have Castle Doctrine here, but not stand your ground. So going after someone who is not an immediate threat is not a wise choice......at least to me. Again, you are free to think differently. Most SD scenarios with a CWC weapon do not require you to search. You know your threat and where they are. Most attacks in those scenarios, the BGs like to have light. So, IMHO, the choice between the two given choices here, for us, an average citizen protecting themselves, pretty much boils down to what works for them and neither is "wrong".

 

[12Bravo20]

Might be wrong for you....not so for me. This is one of the most prevalent themes here on the forum....."it's my way or the highway". If you don;t do it the way I do, you are wrong. But, one only has to research and see that both methods are correct. I learned that a WML was mainly for PID and not a search tool. That what's handhelds are for.....and it works for me. If a WML works better for you, who am I to get on a high horse and say you are "wrong!"? For most HD scenarios, we are not actively leaving the house and searching outside(unless it is a possum or raccoon). We have Castle Doctrine here, but not stand your ground. So going after someone who is not an immediate threat is not a wise choice......at least to me. Again, you are free to think differently. Most SD scenarios with a CWC weapon do not require you to search. You know your threat and where they are. Most attacks in those scenarios, the BGs like to have light. So, IMHO, the choice between the two given choices here, for us, an average citizen protecting themselves, pretty much boils down to what works for them and neither is "wrong".

Well said! And I have to agree with you. I train with and use both types of lights.

 

[Varminterror]

With the exception of cabinets and closets, there is no part of our home which is fully devoid of light, even in the middle of the night, and even if the power goes out, and there is no part of my home which is so cluttered that unnatural sight lines or incongruent intruder position would happen (in other words, there’s not much likelihood of a burglar hiding on top of my refrigerator). I have a WML on my nightstand pistol, and I have a handheld light and a spare magazine beside it. I also have tritium sights on top - for almost the entirety of my home, sufficiently exclusive positive ID of an intruder is possible without supplemental light

The dramatic hyperbole about blinding yourself and/or creating a target is absolute nonsense, only repeated by someone which has never deployed any WML, or any other light, in a darkened domestic space.