Ramblings of an undecided gun buyer.

[DasFriek]

I bet ive written this post 5 times now and just don't post it as i wonder if it makes any sense,but isn't much going on tonight so maybe something interesting for someone to read.

Ive got my ccw now and working on a collection for ccw and range duty,i hope to keep 5 guns for this.The ccw part is more important than the range duty,as i carry daily but only shoot a few times a month.

My main carry weapons are a 5" 1911 and a micro .45,add to that a S&W .22a range gun and thats the guns i currently own.I shoot the crap out of the .22 when i hit the range,the .45's kill me buying ammo for.
So for this i think i need a 9mm,a compact one big enough to use at the range also.
But then i think i need a smaller ccw back up,and a .380 would be a more prudent choice.I can get ammo for .380 locally,but its as much if not more than my .45 ammo at $20 for 50 fmj.
9mm can be had at $10 a box of 50.
This gun will need to serve as a BUG 95% of the time,but would be a main gun if i need to run out fast and don't have time to holster up.

I have 1 week to get this decided before i get paid,and im stressed.Ive never had this issue when i bought my other guns,i knew exactly what is was getting before i ever walked in that store.

Here's the choices ive decided on,but im not limited to these but im pretty sure i could buy any of them and be happy.The problem is a cant buy 2.

Sig P238,love the gun but i don't much care for .380 but i can live with it as a ccw,but no range gun. $450
Kahr CW9- Im ok with this gun,just don't love it.Still small enough for a backup and good for range duty. $439
Kahr PM9, Probably the perfect gun except one thing,price is a killer. $569 locally,cant find one used.Small and powerfull,i really like this gun.
Taurus 709,Same as the CW9 but i like the SA and manual safety. $379

When i said i cant buy 2,i mean i cant buy both at one time as i can add it later when i save up again.
I dont like the smaller .380's due to the size of them at the range.The 238 makes it on my list as its the mini 1911 i crave.
The PM9 would be my natural choice,but ill be eating ramen for a month if i do.The CW9 and 709 would both fill the roll also and do it cheaper.
My other 2 guns are Tauri's also so i have no issues buying their products.

Do you own a CW9 or 709 and wish it was a tad smaller? im afraid i will buy those and feel they are too big to carry when i have a fulls sized main gun strapped on already.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have been trying to talk a friend out of his seldom shot or carried PM9. If he will not part with it, I will have to make up my mind between a CW9 at lower price or a new PM9 of smaller size.

I think the P238 is a decent break between size and power, but I would give Sig Sauer time to get the bugs out of it. Apparently they did not perfectly reverse engineer the Colt Mustang. Or maybe they did.

 

[rbernie]

I have a CW9 it's really quite nice. It has a much nicer trigger pull than my P11, but (of course) less capacity. So far, it's been boringly reliable and surprisingly accurate and easy to shoot. If you want a smallish 9mm, you could do far worse, and I can't think of much better. Given its role as a BUG, I certainly don't find adequate difference between the PM9 and the CW9 to justify paying the extra coin for the PM9.

I will say that I don't carry the CW9 as a BUG to a larger gun, but use it as my primary carry piece when a larger gun would be too obtrusive.

 

[DasFriek]

If i could snag a used PM9 at a lower cost then this would all be alot easier,but at close to $600 with tax it isnt.
I dont worry to much about the Sigs reliability,they have good CS in case i need them.Plus i have enough guns i wont miss one for a few weeks.If it was a 9mm this also would be a no brainer,but with .380 its not easy.
This will be a backup so the .380 doesnt bother me too bad on ballistics,but it would suck for the range due to ammo costs.

How do you guys find the size of the CW9? too large for a back pocket or ankle?

I can only think of a few times where id be in a hurry and not want to waste time strapping up a .45 Maybe over time ill learn to feel comfy as a main gun,if that was my idea here the CW9 would do the job fine.
But if this is to be used as a BUG wouldn't the smaller size of the PM9 be more fitting?
I guess alot comes down to just how small that CW9 feels in my hand again,these options always seem easier with the gun in front of you.

 

[Isher]

DasFriek -

Its been said before, but check out the CZ line.

From the RAMI to the 97B,

You have a bunch of very good guns.

My everyday is a P-01.

Does just as good at the range as CC.

isher

 

[riverdog]

The G19 is one of the best offerings from Glock. 9mm compact, small enough to conceal but just large enough to get a four finger grip.

 

[DasFriek]

I appreciate the suggestions,but im rather set on the guns ive picked out.
They all have a theme: pocket sized,9mm,single stacks,large enough to be useful at the range.The Sig sneaks in with a .380 but i love the design.

 

[Broken11b]

have you thought about a used walther pp, works well for concealed carry in or around the calibers you want. a makarov might also be a cool plaything(ive always wanted one, just never found one to buy when i had the money)

 

[DasFriek]

have you thought about a used walther pp, works well for concealed carry in or around the calibers you want. a makarov might also be a cool plaything(ive always wanted one, just never found one to buy when i had the money)

Actually i have,but for being a .380 with a larger size and higher weight,it kinda puts it in as a "project" gun for me.
One of my shops has a bunch of beat up Makarovs or older CZ's,with a finish that looks like a$%.
Anyhow the PPk and similar isn't an easy find locally for me,if i do find one its generally overpriced.

Im pretty set on what i listed,maybe ill get lucky and the local shops will only have 1 gun on the list and im forced to take that.

 

[smithmax]

I got a 709 recently and have started carrying it instead of my full size USP .40. The 709 conceals very nicely, and I can carry it in the pocket of some of my shorts, but it feels great IWB. The day I got it I put a lot of ammo through it with no problems, and it has been carried everyday since then and I've never thought "I wish this were smaller". Once you conceal it you will realize that it's a world of difference from your 1911.

 

[Kiawah]

Eat Ramen

Have one, love it.

 

[hammerklavier]

Keep looking. Look for something in between the Kahr and Taurus pricewise in 9mm.

 

[DasFriek]

I did rule out the PM9 despite its size,its $569 on sale here but thats $600 when tax is added.For half that i can have a Keltec,not saying i want that tho its just an example.
I like the PT709 better than the KT even tho its $60 more.
Its a toss up with the CW9 and PT709 still,and the P238 is still hanging in.

Hey so im down to 3 guns instead of 4
Also the main shop i buy from will be having a new sale add out in a day or 2 so it may help to see what they have on sale.
hammerklavier- I think your onto something,price is a bigger consideration once rational thought processes kick in for me.
The price of those 2 is $379 and $439 and the p238 at $450.
The P238 may not be available at the time i go,its a hot seller as is the CW9.
The PT709 is always available.

 

[jad0110]

Eat Ramen

I vote for this option as well. Don't rule out the PM9, it sounds like what you REALLY want deep down. Don't settle, it is just a month or two. Patience is definitely a virtue when gun shopping. Great deals, new and especially used, come to those who wait.

I've been holding out for a 2 1/2" S&W Model 19 for carry for 2 years, because I've not found one that was mechanically solid for what I consider a fair price. Sure, I saw a 2 1/2" Model 66-1 recently for $525 that I was tempted by, but I prefer blued finishes so I'll just hold out.

Start putting cash into an envelope and write "PM9" on the outside, and keep it someplace safe. Before you know it, you'll have enough in there to get the gun you'll be most pleased with.

 

[mongo4567]

I have a pm40 and love it. It is a lot smaller and lighter than comparible choices. The same thing can be said for the pm9. I find myself carrying a lot more when it is comfortable.

 

[DasFriek]

I hate you guys
Dang,just when i almost saved a few hundred bucks!

Heres the deal on the PM9 for me personally.
Its small,i mean BUG small and its a 9mm but ive read its even fun at the range and not painful.I think the CW9 would be better at the range tho.Quality isn't lacking on this gun,which id like for once.My other guns are Tauri's which i like but they aren't a high end gun.

This doesn't have to be the smallest gun possible just yet.I do plan on a small .380 later.This is why my heart isn't broken if i don't buy the P238 as i can buy that after this.
The bad: Im a condition 1 guy,well the last 2 months i been carrying anyhow.I have a lot to learn and never even shot a DA gun.On the same theme i used to insist on a manual safety,but im getting past that with the use of holsters breaking that misconception for me.

My local store has this listed as $569 for the PM9 until the 2nd of Oct. seems to be a good price from my online research.
BTW i don't have to save,i just have to pay it all at once and then eat ramen for a month.
I will say at this point i do prefer the smaller gun at this point as i do want to carry this as a BUG.

I certainty will never be under gunned with a .45 primary and a 9mm backup.

 

[mongo4567]

Put the Keltec 9 and the PM9 side by side. The KT is a great gun, but the PM9 is a lot smaller to me. I have a G27 that I don't carry much because of the width in an IWB holster. Same thing for the Sig and the KT P3AT; I would pick the KT in that matchup every time based on size and weight. I have found myself carrying smaller, lighter guns over time. I still carry a 1911 every once in awhile; but I feel very safe with only a P3AT or PM40.

 

[DasFriek]

Hmmm,I suspected the PM9 and PF9 to be about identical in size.
I still have lots of time to learn new habits and things will no doubt change as im very new to carrying.So far size and weight in a main gun dont bother me,feels good having a 5" 1911 in my waistband.But im sure id want something pretty small to accompany it.
I can over look a tad bit of size and weight on the P238,but being a .380 is making it tough to pick it this round.

 

[2TransAms]

You've already got the govt .45 and the compact .45...

If you need anything smaller, look at the superlight .38 revolvers. Servicable as a range gun, and an excellent choice as a BUG.

 

[03Shadowbob]

I'd rather spend the money on the 45 ammo instead of a new 9mm. Sounds like you just want to get a 9mm hideaway and not that you need one. Your 45 compact should fit that bill. However, I do not blame you for wanting a new gun. I have a PF9 and a 642 as well as a 22Minimag depending on how small I need to go. My 642 gets carried more than all others including my 1911.

 

[DasFriek]

Good news! I put the P238 on layaway and pick it up Thursday.
They didn't have the PM9 in stock at either of their locations,i could have one ordered for the price of $569 but it didn't make me happy.I just knew it was a sign to get something else.
That left the PT709,CW9 and the P238.
The first two are identical size wise,and i preferred the CW9 over the PT709.
That left the P238 and CW9.
I figured id want this more for ccw bug and smallest would be best.I knew i would buy a P238 at one point,i just didn't know when.
The CW9 would make a fine range gun or even a main carry gun,but its a bit to large for a BUG.Also they had the Sig for $459 which is a steal compared to prices i see on the net and gunbroker.
My next gun will be the small 9mm as i about cried on my way home when i stopped at Gander Mtn to check ammo prices and they had a LNIB Walther PPS 9mm for $499.
Had i know about that i would have gotten that today,but alas so goes life.

So now ill be busy picking out ammo and holsters.
I really don't like revolvers guys,ive considered it before as i do feel the .38 special is a superior round to a lot of auto ammo.
BOB- its true i don't "need" a gun as much as i "desire" a new gun.I did check out a PF9 they had for $300 and that is an option on this next purchase.
I still have 2 slots open to fill as i want a 5 gun cww collection for a perfect carry piece for every clothing occasion.Ill decide on that later but i think a PF9 would be a perfect small 9mm and a Detonics Combat Master would be another perfect compact .45

 

[trimore]

$569 for a new PM9. That is the ticket.

I just made similar choices. I decided against the Keltec PF 9mm for various reasons. I narrowed it down to the 709 or the Kahr PM9. When we held both of them at the same time and let my wife feel both, the PM9 won hands down.

I really wanted to save the $ just like you but decided that in the end it was better to get the gun that my wife liked and I liked and one I would not regret. Not saying I would regret the 709 but it is brand new and somewhat unknown. The Kahr has a great following.

Now that I have PM9, I am pleased for sure.

Save up and get the one you really want.

 

[DasFriek]

Ill admit ive had to wonder if i made a mistake not getting the PM9 and waiting for them to order it,they would have honored the $569 price.Im sure it will be $100 more when i see another one.
Ya know,i do like the PT709 for a few reasons.I have 2 Tauri's now and they are very reliable and very affordable.Plus its a SA/DA with a manual safety which i prefer.
But holding it next too a CW9 i like that better,and even more so when i held the PM40 they had in stock which is a copy of the pm9's size.

In needing a range gun id prefer SA over DA for accuracy,but for ccw i prefer small.
And thats showing to be an issue and i think i will have to divide that into 2 guns.Which will be easier now i have the P238 coming.

Of course id like a small 9mm for ccw and if it can be fun at the range all the better.I hope to make that purchase around Christmas.

That list is looking like this: CW9,PM9 and PT709 and maybe PPS 9mm.
I definetly need a 9mm so i can afford to shoot at the range, $10 for a box of 50 9mm is about 50% cheaper than any gun i have now besides my .22a

 

[Jed Carter]

I'm a big SIG, H&K and 1911 fan, but for daily concealed carry its only CZ. I used to carry a SIG P232 and felt under gunned, so I replaced it with the 9mm CZ PCR. It's big enough to enjoy shooting and just right to carry everywhere, every time. http://czusa.com The CZ PCR is very accurate, reliable, concealable and sexy as hell, IMHO.