Random brass

[Bayourambler]

Hey guys I'm brand new to handloading and need some direction. I'm learning to load up rounds for my ruger m77 30 06. While waiting for all of my reloading supplies to come in I prepped a few brass I had saved from my gun. I started reloading them and immediately seen great improvements! Someone gave me a bunch of 06 brass picked up at a range. I'm not having much luck with these. Is this common? Should I only use my fired brass? Will this range brass get better in my rifle after a couple of realoadings? If it will not really shoot good I don't feel like wasting powder and bullets. This stuff is pricey! Thanks .

 

[GooseGestapo]

Depends. Brass isn't just brass. Like wine, some are MUCH better than others. However unlike wine, brass seldom "gets better" with age.

Tell us about the "problem" brass...

 

[Varminterror]

Mixed brass will not group as consistently as single source brass, for a number of reasons. Running max loads in mixed brass is borderline irresponsible, as a max load in certain brass might be an over-charge in other brass.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Hey guys I'm brand new to handloading and need some direction. I'm learning to load up rounds for my ruger m77 30 06. While waiting for all of my reloading supplies to come in I prepped a few brass I had saved from my gun. I started reloading them and immediately seen great improvements! Someone gave me a bunch of 06 brass picked up at a range. I'm not having much luck with these. Is this common? Should I only use my fired brass? Will this range brass get better in my rifle after a couple of realoadings? If it will not really shoot good I don't feel like wasting powder and bullets. This stuff is pricey! Thanks .

When reloading range brass look at it closely near the base (the soild web) for signs of stretching. Some sloppy guns out there headspace wise. If you're going to mix brands, separate them by weight. Some brands use thicker brass than others and that affects case capacity.
Problem with range brass is you don't know how many times it's been fired but if the shooter left the brass behind their not reloaders so it's safe to say it's. Only been fired once.
Have fun with you're new hobby!

 

[Bayourambler]

The problem is headspace. I run the mixed stuff through resizing die and i get random headspace measurements. When I check headspace with guage after shooting, it's all good then. If I have a case with a short headspace after resizing, is there a way to increase it?

 

[Sunray]

"...Will this range brass get better..." Issue with range brass is that you have no idea what has been done to it or how many times. It has nothing whatever to do with headspace though. Cases do not have headspace. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance only.
When you're using brass not fired out of your rifle, you must check it for length(lock your vernier calipre at 2.494", the max case length, and use it as a gauge) and FL resize. Assuming your sizer die is set up correctly, the cases should be fine after FL resizing.
"...Running max loads in mixed brass..." Makes no difference whatsoever. The case has nothing whatever to do with the pressure. Except for milsurp brass that's usually a tick thicker than commercial.

 

[stoky]

Is there an echo in here......here......here.........here.........here ?

 

[db_tanker]

what sunray said is pretty much spot on. anytime you do a scrounge of range brass always check it...you could be picking up someones brass that has had possibly 10 or more loads already ran through it and may be coming close to case head separation or other possible failures.

As for myself and my reloading habits...for my "fired" brass coming out of my bolt guns I have either a collett sizer (my 308 Win and 300 WinMag) or I have two sizing dies...one set to just neck size and one set to FL size...yeah it can get pricey but its worth it IMO for how I process my brass. of course if you have different bolt guns running the same ammo this can get sticky so you'd need a good labeling system. I also load alot of 30-30 and have 4 separate rifles shooting that....I found out that my lever gun sized ammo will NOT chamber in my Savage 340...so beware!

D

 

[Bayourambler]

Is there a way to increase the length from the case rim to the shoulder ? Some are fitting loose in my rifle. (Measurement falls .004 -.006" short of being snug in the chamber ..

 

[redneck2]

Is there a way to increase the length from the case rim to the shoulder ? Some are fitting loose in my rifle. (Measurement falls .004 -.006" short of being snug in the chamber ..

Yeah. Shoot it. Problem is that you'll probably stretch the case so much you might have case head separation.

If you load at reasonable levels brass typically lasts a long time. Me? I'd pitch the junk and use either my brass or new brass. I'm not trying to be rude, but sometimes we're too cheap for our own good. A hundred brass loaded to moderate levels will last most of the life of the barrel.

 

[Varminterror]

If I have a case with a short headspace after resizing, is there a way to increase it?

There are ways, but generally not worth doing for cases as cheap as .30-06.

1) Hydroform dies. Fill it with water, whack it with a hammer, blow the shoulder out as if it were fire formed.

2) Fireforming:
A) Seating a bullet long into the lands and use a reduced fireforming load.
B) Use an oversized expander to upsize the case neck, then go back and partially size the neck - this leaves a false shoulder in the neck to serve as your head spacing dead length.

For abundantly available and pleasantly cheap brass, there is no reason to do any of the above. Just pitch the short brass and go on with your life using the other brass.

4-6 thousandths of shoulder fireforming will not cause case head separation if you perform the steps above to properly fireform. Firing with these loose in the chamber might - or at least stretch a weak spot where it will separate in a few more firings.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Is there a way to increase the length from the case rim to the shoulder ? Some are fitting loose in my rifle. (Measurement falls .004 -.006" short of being snug in the chamber ..

Use less then max loads, and seat the bullet to a over all length that shoves the bullet hard into the rifling. That holds the base against the bolt face, and when you shoot the shoulder blows forward to fireform to a perfect fit in your chamber.
That's how I make 35Whelen improved from 06 brass and it works great.

Note- make sure if you chamber such a long round shoot it! If you try to extract it without firing, you will have a bullet stuck in the barrel and a magazine full of 4350!

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

"...Running max loads in mixed brass..." Makes no difference whatsoever. The case has nothing whatever to do with the pressure. Except for milsurp brass that's usually a tick thicker than commercial."

That I disagree with wholeheartedly. From personal experience I can tell you this can make a difference. To wit: I was running near max (1 gr under) loads in one of my Mausers using Remington brass w/o any problems; I had the same charge in a small selection of Winchester brass and my bolt locked up, primer was flatend out. I work up my loads to the 10th of a gr so I know an overcharge was not the problem. I pulled the remainder of the rounds in Winchester brass and they all were at the exact charge. There is a difference in not only interior volume of the different brands of brass, but the resilency of the brass itself. Some brands fail sooner than others. It is best to be careful at the high end of charge weights.

 

[LoonWulf]

I shoot quite a bit of scrounged brass, and generally i just run it thru a full length sizer, after carefully checking it.
Ive also loaded 5 rounds of 06 with 5 different brands of cases, same load, and shot them against my loads with the same head stamps. I couldnt tell much of a difference in group size or change of poi...to be fair im not a great shot from the bench and i shot all 10rnds (and only 10rnds) into the same target, so results are far from conclusive.
I would perhaps be concerned if i were running really.hot loads and switching or mixing brass.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I haven't been able to tell a dime's worth of difference in any of the commercial brand brass for .30-06 (I haven't loaded very much with military brass).
And at least half of my brass has been picked up off the ground at the range.

I'm sure if you are a benchrest shooter, chasing half inch groups, you may notice a difference. But my Weatherby Vanguard will shoot very close with the same brass, and will shoot the same groups with mixed brass. I know this because I have actually done it on purpose to see if the mixed brass made a difference. I shot a 3 shot group with one each of RP, Federal and Winchester and it was about the same size (right around MOA) as groups with the same brand brass.

Your mileage may vary, but I haven't noticed enough difference (as far as hunting accuracy) to worry about it.
Perhaps I'm not a good enough shot to realize it. That is possible.