Random thoughts, NFA registry and NFA deletion

[ID-shooting]

Random thought just rolled through my head though I am sure I am not the first to have this wish.

Say for a moment, just a moment that someone with money, power and influence proposed legislation that would remove C&R weapons from the the NFA. I am talking guns that either have to be registered as SBR or altered barrels or permanently made into pistols.

In the same movement, allow current reproductions of C&R weapons into the same class for "collecting purposes"

It pains me that I have some weapons if historical interest that I have to register, have a 16-inch barrel or leave in a pistol configuration. PPS43 comes to mind, Suomi and others like it.

To further this, re-open the registry for C&R guns to allow historical arms to be in their native machine gun form. Maybe progress in steps. Allow current C&R at first then move up the line to be able to own a true M4/M16.

I know, all a pipe dream, but still, seems like we could try at least allowing for me to not have to spend $200 each just to have my sub-guns original and legal.

 

[dogtown tom]

ID-shooting .....Say for a moment, just a moment that someone with money, power and influence proposed legislation that would remove C&R weapons from the the NFA. I am talking guns that either have to be registered as SBR or altered barrels or permanently made into pistols.

It's been done for years. if you'll read the ATF C&R list you'll find many firearms that have been removed from the NFA due to their status as curios or relics. Example: Certain Luger, Mauser and FN pistols can have a detachable shoulder stock attached without need for an SBR tax stamp.

All you need to do is write ATF a letter.

In the same movement, allow current reproductions of C&R weapons into the same class for "collecting purposes"

Ummmm.............what makes a current reproduction collectible as a curio or relic? Answer......nothing.

It pains me that I have some weapons if historical interest that I have to register, have a 16-inch barrel or leave in a pistol configuration. PPS43 comes to mind, Suomi and others like it.

Again, you can write a letter asking that the firearm be added to the list.

To further this, re-open the registry for C&R guns to allow historical arms to be in their native machine gun form. Maybe progress in steps. Allow current C&R at first then move up the line to be able to own a true M4/M16.

Some early M16's are already C&R. The difficulty is finding one not in .gov hands.

I know, all a pipe dream, but still, seems like we could try at least allowing for me to not have to spend $200 each just to have my sub-guns original and legal.

You can dream or write a letter. There are numerous firearms on the C&R list that are not yet 50 years old. You need to be able to explain why the firearm is considered collectible, not "just because".

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^^ Noting that many Title 2 firearms are BOTH C&R AND NFA. They are not exclusive of each other.

Now:

Being on the C&R List *if also NFA* does not mean anything other than that a C&R license holder can buy it across state lines without needing to go thru a dealer in his own state for the transfer. Further noting that NFA Trusts cannot hold a C&R license, and so that privilege is extended only to individual license holders. Naturally at that point a CLEO signoff is needed..... empty one can of worms and open another.


Having items *removed* from the NFA "has been done" but only as far as I know for a very limited number of short barrel rifles and a few shoulder stocked pistols (as noted above). The SBR's that come to mind are particularly many original Winchester Trapper rifles, which are listed by serial number on the C&R list. I really don't think you're going to get any machineguns removed from the NFA Registry no matter what.


Willie

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[barnbwt]

It pains me that I have some weapons if historical interest that I have to register, have a 16-inch barrel or leave in a pistol configuration. PPS43 comes to mind, Suomi and others like it

Wait, the barrel length is what you object to changing for historical accuracy? Not scrambling their innards to make them semiauto closed bolt?

TCB

 

[ID-shooting]

Ok, my intent must have been missed in my pointless ramblings. I know full and well it would never happen but i sure would like to have my pps43 in its original design. I would even like a true 14.5 inch M4. I just think it is silly to have to pay $200 for each gun to have it the way it was supposed to be.

We all know they will never let us have full auto guns but a stab at taking SBR's out of the NFA would be a good start. Then when that shows to be no increase in crime, move onto reopening the registry or dropping it all together to have these arms original.

 

[Tirod]

Well, we do have full auto guns, at least those made before the registery was closed. And that is being challenged in court. At this point in time it could be a possibility.

Machine gun sales are moving briskly along, and the prices are still increasing. The concern I have is that a wealthy possessor would throw a monkey wrench into the political process to protect the value of his collection. $12,000 full auto M16's could easily drop to $2400 if the registery was open.

I don't see owners as a class willing to take a bath on their guns losing 75% of their value lost just so others can have one, too. Seems to run counter to my expectations of human nature. Seeing a quarter million dollar collection drop to 50k just seems to me to be an incentive to stifle opening the registery.

 

[wally]

I don't see owners as a class willing to take a bath on their guns losing 75% of their value lost just so others can have one, too. Seems to run counter to my expectations of human nature. Seeing a quarter million dollar collection drop to 50k just seems to me to be an incentive to stifle opening the registery.

Sell reopening the registry to the anti's as a way to divide and conquer gun owners

 

[AlexanderA]

Tirod wrote:

The concern I have is that a wealthy possessor would throw a monkey wrench into the political process to protect the value of his collection. $12,000 full auto M16's could easily drop to $2400 if the registery was open.

I don't see owners as a class willing to take a bath on their guns losing 75% of their value lost just so others can have one, too. Seems to run counter to my expectations of human nature. Seeing a quarter million dollar collection drop to 50k just seems to me to be an incentive to stifle opening the registery.

The often-repeated idea that there are many MG owners that would put protecting their paper gains over being able to acquire more, and newer, guns is a myth. As an MG owner myself, and talking to other owners, we are all unanimous in wanting the Registry to be reopened. The reason is simple: people do not buy, and have never bought, machine guns primarily as an investment (despite what they may tell their spouses...). People buy them because they like the guns themselves, whether to shoot, to collect, or whatever. They complain about the high prices, and about the bureaucratic red tape that they have to go through. They do not complain about the possibility of their guns going down in value. Quite the oposite, in fact. Lower prices mean that they could buy more. BTW, hardly any MG owner sells his guns these days (the capital gains tax is one reason). They die, and then their widows sell their guns.

 

[pjeski]

This.

If the registry is opened, my investment in MGs will top my investment in Kmart (pre bankruptcy) in terms of being a bad investment. I would welcome the loss.