Spec ops Grunt
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Just what animals besides deer, can the 30-30 take?
Range of 30-30
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30-30's hit pretty damned hard. I honestly can't think of any North American game animal I wouldn't be confident about killing with a good 30-30 that I'd spent some time at the range with.
There's nothing really wrong with the ballistics of the caliber either. It has a reputation as being primarily a short-range, quick-aiming 'brush gun' cartridge, but I think that has more to do with the types of rifles you normally see in 30-30 (meaning lever actions that don't often mount scopes) than it does anything about the cartridge itself.
There's nothing really wrong with the ballistics of the caliber either. It has a reputation as being primarily a short-range, quick-aiming 'brush gun' cartridge, but I think that has more to do with the types of rifles you normally see in 30-30 (meaning lever actions that don't often mount scopes) than it does anything about the cartridge itself.
Art Eatman
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Fresh out of the box, the typical lever-action sights aren't all that great for precision beyond 150 yards or so. Familiarity over time can help a lot.
Next is that beyond a couple of hundred yards, the trajectory begins to be a serious factor unless you're good at estimating range and know the trajectory of your rifle. Again, experience.
Most lever-action .30-30s are limited to 40,000 psi, which is the reason for the relatively low muzzle velocity. A lot of guys picked up the old Savage bolt-actions in .30-30 and handloaded to around 50,000 psi and flattened out the trajectory quite nicely. With a scope, it made for an easy 250- to 300-yard package.
Art
Next is that beyond a couple of hundred yards, the trajectory begins to be a serious factor unless you're good at estimating range and know the trajectory of your rifle. Again, experience.
Most lever-action .30-30s are limited to 40,000 psi, which is the reason for the relatively low muzzle velocity. A lot of guys picked up the old Savage bolt-actions in .30-30 and handloaded to around 50,000 psi and flattened out the trajectory quite nicely. With a scope, it made for an easy 250- to 300-yard package.
Art
MCgunner
Member
I shoot a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip in my .30-30 contender. In a rifle, it'd be a 300 yard load. You could probably sight it for a 250 yard point blank range, meaning the bullet would not exceed 3" high or low to 250 yards, pretty flat shootin' compared to the flat and round nose traditional stuff. But, in a lever gun, I'd have to load one round in the barrel, one in the magazine, to avoid the bullet's point resting on the primer of the case in front of it. That's okay, a two shot with the advantages this round has is worth it.
If I bought a .30-30, first thing I'd add is a ghost ring receiver aperture sight. Scopes work, but I see the lever carbines as handy rifles afield and scopes make 'em less handy. Aperture sights are quite up to the task at up to 200 yards, though.
The problem with the .30-30 on bigger than deer size game is energy on target. It's a great deer rifle. It's plenty of gun for taking big black bear with a 170 grain round or flat nose. There's even a partition bullet factory load for it. But, it's awfully weak for elk or moose or something. I guess if you could get in range of a caribou or pronghorn with it, it'd work fine. Just the getting in range part that is the catcher.
Yeah, all north American game animals have fallen to the .30-30. Heck, they've probably all fallen to the .22LR. I know at one time the Canadian record black bear was killed with a .22 rimfire. The .30-30 is THE rifle for outdoor types. The cartridges are readily available at the nearest trading post and it's such a handy little carbine to tote around all day or on horseback it's practically like a long handgun with a stock. That's the reason it's taken all the game it has, it's everywhere where game is. But, it's not my optimum choice as a sportsman for bigger than deer size game and at longer ranges than woods ranges.
If I bought a .30-30, first thing I'd add is a ghost ring receiver aperture sight. Scopes work, but I see the lever carbines as handy rifles afield and scopes make 'em less handy. Aperture sights are quite up to the task at up to 200 yards, though.
The problem with the .30-30 on bigger than deer size game is energy on target. It's a great deer rifle. It's plenty of gun for taking big black bear with a 170 grain round or flat nose. There's even a partition bullet factory load for it. But, it's awfully weak for elk or moose or something. I guess if you could get in range of a caribou or pronghorn with it, it'd work fine. Just the getting in range part that is the catcher.
Yeah, all north American game animals have fallen to the .30-30. Heck, they've probably all fallen to the .22LR. I know at one time the Canadian record black bear was killed with a .22 rimfire. The .30-30 is THE rifle for outdoor types. The cartridges are readily available at the nearest trading post and it's such a handy little carbine to tote around all day or on horseback it's practically like a long handgun with a stock. That's the reason it's taken all the game it has, it's everywhere where game is. But, it's not my optimum choice as a sportsman for bigger than deer size game and at longer ranges than woods ranges.
JJE
Member
Wild pigs. The CA Dept of Fish & Game recommends at least 800 ft-lb of energy @ 100 yards for pigs less than 90 lbs, and at least 1,200 ft-lb @ 100 yards for larger pigs. The 30-30 meets both criteria.
hoghunting
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Never had a problem with hogs or deer out to 200 yards. Never lost an animal inside that range. Will only shoot inside 200 yards as there is too much bullet drop outside that range with the flatnose bullets used in the lever action rifles.
T.R.
Member
This nice sized muley fell to a single 150 grain core-lockt through the chest. Distance was about 125 yards or so. The animal was broadside and unaware of my presence. I had stalked to get within this distance and patiently waited for a good shot at to destroy both lungs in an instant. This is what hunting is all about: Spot, stalk, wait, and shoot accurately.
Blasting away at long range is the mark of a frustrated amateur.
30-30 does its BEST work inside of 175 yards or so. But the NEW leverevolution Hornady ammo has great promise to extend lethality to 225 yards or farther. I have not personally witnessed this performance.
Many North American animals are taken neatly with the 30-30 each year. Cree Indians of Canada do not hesitate to topple thousands of migrating caribou, moose, and great bears with their carbines. Trappers, ranchers, and local hunters across the Rockies count on their carbines to take tasty elk for the table each and every year. Lever action carbines can fire half a dozen well aimed shots in fairly short time. Shooting a large animal twice in the chest with a 30-30 is nothing to be ashamed of; the energy delivered exceeds that of a single magnum bullet!
In summary, the 30-30 has a long and well documented history of taking big game. 30-30 is a great hunting cartridge for a the hunter who knows the terrain and the game quite well. It is also quite useful for the hunter who is wanting to add a little challenge to his hunts. But it has limitations for distance and performance which must be considered before firing that shot. The hunter who does not want to accept these limitations is better served by a more powerful cartridge.
TR
Sistema1927
Member
The new Hornady LeverEvolution rounds make the .30-30 a 300 yard rifle. The latest American Rifleman has a pretty good article about this ammo.
You would have to sight it in at 250 yards where you would only have a 6.5 inch drop at 300 yards with 1055 fpe left. Better yet would be a 200 yard sight in which gives you a 4.9 inch drop at 250 yards with 1184 fpe with the highest rise of 2.5 inches at 150 yards. This would make it a dead on hold out to 250 yards which would be pretty good for the old 30-30.
Major Factors in "Terminal Power"
I've read many articles (back in the day that I used a Wea. 300 Mag) that stated you should have 1,200 pounds remaining. As an example, Wea. used to boast that their 180 Grain spire point had 1,800 pounds energy remaining at 500 yards. Furthermore it boasted a flat trajectory.
I would review the .30-30 literature and determine how much energy it has at what range. However, the issue of 1,200 pounds energy was, at the time, GREATLY debated. Other writers claimed that merely 900 pounds energy was needed. It takes me back to the days of which is better, the .270 Win. or the .30-06 Sprg--Heavens, EVERYONE knows that neither is, the .280 Express is best.
Just thought I'd throw that in.
Through out my earlier life, I had one single goal--one-shot; one-kill! That's doable when you can wrestle with magnums. In fact, back in the day (before a car accident that required more than 30 surgeries) I was going to purchase a .50 BMG Barrett. Not now.
The .30-30 might be a good rifle for me to consider. For me, I am actually considering the new T/C Pro Hunter. (Already posted). The 28" inch barrel, being single-shot allows for Nosler Ballistic tips and max. loads. That fact could, (seemingly) increase the one-shot kill zone to over 200 yards, but I would want to see some data first.
After all, we do, as hunters, have a responsibility to dispatch the animal as-quickly and as-cleanly-as we are capable. Certain hunters, such as me, now wrestle with severe physical handicaps. I have not asked anyone on my job for accommodation, nor have I asked the DNR for such. But for fact, handicaps can and do place limits on what, where, and how we hunt. How does all of this tie in then?
Simple, a .30-30 is not a .30-30. There are many considerations: bullet weight, bullet design, bullet sectional density, barrel length and starting velocity (pressure). The same weight bullet say (150 grain) fired through a 14" Contender pistol, versus through a 16" Model 94, versus an Encore with 26" or 28" barrel will permit different bullets, permit different pressures, and therefore will perform radically different. Stated more dramatically, but equally accurate, a .30-30 CAN have more power than a .308, depending on platform and load, but in reality, it will usually be the case that the .308's load was compromised rather than the .30-30 increased to that of .308 unimpeded. See what I mean? So, in conclusion, the .30-30 can take any and every game animal for which it can be adequately and properly loaded. Deer 150 Nos. Ball. Tip, Boar, 150 Nos. Part. For me, it is more than question of distance rather than what game. Throughout history, the .30-30 has taken just about every game animal in North America.
This was a GREAT thread and good for thought. Thank-you!
Doc2005
I've read many articles (back in the day that I used a Wea. 300 Mag) that stated you should have 1,200 pounds remaining. As an example, Wea. used to boast that their 180 Grain spire point had 1,800 pounds energy remaining at 500 yards. Furthermore it boasted a flat trajectory.
I would review the .30-30 literature and determine how much energy it has at what range. However, the issue of 1,200 pounds energy was, at the time, GREATLY debated. Other writers claimed that merely 900 pounds energy was needed. It takes me back to the days of which is better, the .270 Win. or the .30-06 Sprg--Heavens, EVERYONE knows that neither is, the .280 Express is best.
Just thought I'd throw that in.Through out my earlier life, I had one single goal--one-shot; one-kill! That's doable when you can wrestle with magnums. In fact, back in the day (before a car accident that required more than 30 surgeries) I was going to purchase a .50 BMG Barrett. Not now.
The .30-30 might be a good rifle for me to consider. For me, I am actually considering the new T/C Pro Hunter. (Already posted). The 28" inch barrel, being single-shot allows for Nosler Ballistic tips and max. loads. That fact could, (seemingly) increase the one-shot kill zone to over 200 yards, but I would want to see some data first.
After all, we do, as hunters, have a responsibility to dispatch the animal as-quickly and as-cleanly-as we are capable. Certain hunters, such as me, now wrestle with severe physical handicaps. I have not asked anyone on my job for accommodation, nor have I asked the DNR for such. But for fact, handicaps can and do place limits on what, where, and how we hunt. How does all of this tie in then?
Simple, a .30-30 is not a .30-30. There are many considerations: bullet weight, bullet design, bullet sectional density, barrel length and starting velocity (pressure). The same weight bullet say (150 grain) fired through a 14" Contender pistol, versus through a 16" Model 94, versus an Encore with 26" or 28" barrel will permit different bullets, permit different pressures, and therefore will perform radically different. Stated more dramatically, but equally accurate, a .30-30 CAN have more power than a .308, depending on platform and load, but in reality, it will usually be the case that the .308's load was compromised rather than the .30-30 increased to that of .308 unimpeded. See what I mean? So, in conclusion, the .30-30 can take any and every game animal for which it can be adequately and properly loaded. Deer 150 Nos. Ball. Tip, Boar, 150 Nos. Part. For me, it is more than question of distance rather than what game. Throughout history, the .30-30 has taken just about every game animal in North America.
This was a GREAT thread and good for thought. Thank-you!
Doc2005
MCgunner
Member
Doc,
The only load data I have is for a 12 inch hunter barrel out of a Contender pistol, but maybe it'll help some. I only worked the ballistics out to 250 yards because any further is moot in that gun. Gives you an idea how the BC of that boat tail bullet effects the gun. I can say the bullet expands readily at these velocities, something not usual in other 150 grain bullet designs.
Cal .30-30 Factory Winchester 150 grain flat point 150 yard zero
Mean muzzle velocity 1871 fps
average deviation 29.77
Mean enrgy 1166
50 vel 1707 energy 970 ft lbs drop +1.9"
100 1565 fps 749 ft lbs +2.7
150 1439 fps 689 ft lbs 0
200 1325 fps 585 ft lbs -7.0
Caliber .30-30
Case Remington nickel
Primer CCI 300
Powder IMR3031/33.5 grains
Bullet 150 grain Nosler BT
Bal Coefficient .435
Gun TC Contender
Barrel 12"
Zero range 175 yards
Mean Velocity 1987 fps
Avg. Deviation 20.64
Standard Deviation 26.34
Mean Energy 1315 ft lbs
50 1896 fps 1197 ft lbs +1.8"
100 1815 fps 1097 ft lbs +3.1"
150 1737 fps 1005 ft lbs +1.7"
200 1663 fps 922 ft lbs -2.5"
250 1593 fps 845 ft lbs -9.8"
The only load data I have is for a 12 inch hunter barrel out of a Contender pistol, but maybe it'll help some. I only worked the ballistics out to 250 yards because any further is moot in that gun. Gives you an idea how the BC of that boat tail bullet effects the gun. I can say the bullet expands readily at these velocities, something not usual in other 150 grain bullet designs.
Cal .30-30 Factory Winchester 150 grain flat point 150 yard zero
Mean muzzle velocity 1871 fps
average deviation 29.77
Mean enrgy 1166
50 vel 1707 energy 970 ft lbs drop +1.9"
100 1565 fps 749 ft lbs +2.7
150 1439 fps 689 ft lbs 0
200 1325 fps 585 ft lbs -7.0
Caliber .30-30
Case Remington nickel
Primer CCI 300
Powder IMR3031/33.5 grains
Bullet 150 grain Nosler BT
Bal Coefficient .435
Gun TC Contender
Barrel 12"
Zero range 175 yards
Mean Velocity 1987 fps
Avg. Deviation 20.64
Standard Deviation 26.34
Mean Energy 1315 ft lbs
50 1896 fps 1197 ft lbs +1.8"
100 1815 fps 1097 ft lbs +3.1"
150 1737 fps 1005 ft lbs +1.7"
200 1663 fps 922 ft lbs -2.5"
250 1593 fps 845 ft lbs -9.8"
sturmruger
Member
I own my Great Grandfather's Marlin 1893 chamberd in 30-30. He shot Elk, Mule Deer, Bear, and Whitetail with this gun. Now that I own it I will probably just use it for Whitetail since if I ever go black bear hunting I am going to use somethign larger.
OP
OP
Spec ops Grunt
Member
Wow, I'm learnin. 
You guys are making a Marlin more appeling than a 7600
You guys are making a Marlin more appeling than a 7600
'Card
Member
Given a choice between a Remington 7600 and a Marlin .30-30 (which sounds like the options you're considering) I'd go with the 7600.
Both are good, reliable weapons, and both have their uses, but if I could only have one I'd take a 7600 in .30-06. I think you'd have more options and flexibility with the 7600 (both in terms of ammunition and range) than you would with the .30-30.
Personally though? I'm a semi-auto fan. If I was buying a deer rifle right now I'd be having a really hard time choosing between Remington's new 750 Woodsmaster and Winchester's new SXR. The 750 would probably be the one I'd buy, but only because I already own a Model 81 Woodsmaster, a 742 Woodsmaster, a 7400 Woodsmaster, and a 7400 Weathermaster - and I'd like to keep up the tradition.
Both are good, reliable weapons, and both have their uses, but if I could only have one I'd take a 7600 in .30-06. I think you'd have more options and flexibility with the 7600 (both in terms of ammunition and range) than you would with the .30-30.
Personally though? I'm a semi-auto fan. If I was buying a deer rifle right now I'd be having a really hard time choosing between Remington's new 750 Woodsmaster and Winchester's new SXR. The 750 would probably be the one I'd buy, but only because I already own a Model 81 Woodsmaster, a 742 Woodsmaster, a 7400 Woodsmaster, and a 7400 Weathermaster - and I'd like to keep up the tradition.
OP
OP
Spec ops Grunt
Member
I was considering .243 (pefect for everything where I live) but a used Marlin ischeaper, and I like leverguns. I would want peep sights though..
mustanger98
Member
Spec ops Grunt said:
I like .243 and .30-30 and I have and use both. I like my crankbolt and I like my levergun. Just depends on my mood, I guess. For the peep sight on a Marlin, I recommend a Williams FP/TK for it's positive click adjustment, but IIRC they also make a Guide rear for a 336. This is gonna require a little taller front sight too but it's no big deal to figure that out. I have that formula.
I recall Larry Weisshun (sp?) writing in Shooting Times about his growing up deer hunting along the Canadian River in Texas... he said he used a Winchester .30-30 and stretched it out to 200yds, but he hunting all the time with that gun back then.
The mention of using the .30-30 on elk... I agree that it'll do it within its effective range with 170grainers. Or, I have some handloaded 165gr spitzers SP's. It the power was cranked up some on those in the old Model340 Savage, it'd probably be a 200-250yd deal with an upper-lung/spinal shot in mind. My 340's wearing a Bushnell 3-9x32... I sure would like to find another 340 cheap with the proper holes drilled and tapped so I could mount my FP/TK.
I like .243 and .30-30 and I have and use both. I like my crankbolt and I like my levergun. Just depends on my mood, I guess. For the peep sight on a Marlin, I recommend a Williams FP/TK for it's positive click adjustment, but IIRC they also make a Guide rear for a 336. This is gonna require a little taller front sight too but it's no big deal to figure that out. I have that formula.
I recall Larry Weisshun (sp?) writing in Shooting Times about his growing up deer hunting along the Canadian River in Texas... he said he used a Winchester .30-30 and stretched it out to 200yds, but he hunting all the time with that gun back then.
The mention of using the .30-30 on elk... I agree that it'll do it within its effective range with 170grainers. Or, I have some handloaded 165gr spitzers SP's. It the power was cranked up some on those in the old Model340 Savage, it'd probably be a 200-250yd deal with an upper-lung/spinal shot in mind. My 340's wearing a Bushnell 3-9x32... I sure would like to find another 340 cheap with the proper holes drilled and tapped so I could mount my FP/TK.
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