Pointed Bullets in 30-30

[ldlfh7]

I was thinking about loading some pointed bullets for my 30-30 and to load them into the barrel 1 at a time and bypass the tube. Its a model 94 and this is how I load at the range and hence got the idea. I know about pointed bullets and primers in the tube but if I effectively turn my 30-30 into a single shot and manually load the chamber would this provide any advantage for shots within 30-30 deer hunting ranges vs traditional round nose?
Would it be a better deer hunting bullet than the round nose?

 

[PistolPete45]

pointed can be a problem Point of the next round is in contact with the primer of the round in front of it and that the round in front of it .. plastic tip rounds will be a soft plastic to prevent this ..

 

[WestKentucky]

I loaded a bunch of military fmj I pulled from 7.62 nato cases. They shot very very nicely. And no you don't limit the gun to a single shot...you load 2. It's the recoil that's an issue, and when you load on in the chamber that leaves one underneath...nothing for that pointy bullet to set off.

 

[witchhunter]

Be careful with this. Most spritzer bullets are made to expand at higher velocities. I have found that the flat nose or round nose 30/30 bullets work just fine, there really is not that much to gain in ballistics at 30/30 ranges and velocities.

 

[jmr40]

Not really worth the effort. At 30-30 speeds the pointed bullets won't add much range to the gun compared to RN bullets. With the same zero it means about 1" less drop at 300 yards.

 

[mbt2001]

Hornady lever evolution.

 

[Don McDowell]

Using standard spire point bullets there is very little advantage in the 30-30, at best there'll be 2 inches less drop at 150 yds or so. I don't think many shooters can hold that close in field conditions.
The FTX bullets do change the game a little bit, but still don't really offer anything other than being able to safely cram the magazine full.

 

[rcmodel]

No it won't.

Consider the 30-30 lever gun a 150 175 yard rifle with open sights for most people.
Add another 100 yards tops with a scope.

A Spitzer will make so little difference at that range as to go unnoticed.

But the change of zero switching back and forth between shots using different bullets sure will!!!!

Don't bother.

Pick one load, and one FP or RN magazine safe bullet.
Zero the rifle with it.

Then go kill deer as far as you should be shooting at them with a 30-30 in the first place.


The other, other thing is, most .30 cal Spitzer bullets are designed to perform on game at .308/30-06/.300 Mag velocity.

NOT at 30-30 long range velocity where the Spitzer bullet shines.

rc

 

[Jim Watson]

One of them spritzer bullets (Don't you just hate auto spell fix?) will expand just as well from a .30-30 at 200 yards as it does from a .30-06 at 500 yards.

I set a friend up with my 788 .30-30 and the Hornady rubbernose bullets. The trajectory figured adequate to 190 yards but the shot came a good deal closer.

 

[rcmodel]

But the 1/2" -1" less drop at 200 yards wasn't worth turning your 30-30 lever-gun into a single-shot, round counter 225 yard gun did it?

rc

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I know you said you have a Winchester, but for others reading this, something to consider when loading spitzers in a lever action is how long the loaded round will be.

I got the bright idea that I was going to load some 125 grain ballistic tips for a .30-30 Marlin and just have one in the chamber and one in the tube. Well the only problem was that the finished round was too long to eject. I had to shoot the damn thing to unload it. :banghead:

And I agree with rcmodel that it isn't worth it. The .30-30 is what it is, and a long range tool it isn't. Load it normally and use it for what it was intended. If you're wanting to shoot a deer past about 250 it's time for a more powerful cartridge. However, that is rarely needed in most areas of the country.

I've only killed 10 deer but the farthest one could have easily been taken with the thuty thuty.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Hornady lever evolution.

^^^THIS... you can have fancy pointy boolits and load more than one at a time.

Like everyone else said, the bullet design isn't what is holding back the 30-30, it is the round design itself. It serves a definite role, but that role is short/medium range in a handy package.

 

[Delmar]

I tried single loading some 150 grain ballistic tips in a model 94 just to see what they would do. What I did find is some amazing accuracy-with the iron sights, they would hold close to an inch at 100 yards, something I wasn't able to do on a regular basis with round nose in 150 or heavier weights.

I do agree though, pointed bullets for hunting are probably not going to be driven fast enough to expand much, but I admit that I do not have any first hand experience in the field with them.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Played with that concept years ago...Waste of good range time.

Do as RC stated in post #8...

 

[MCgunner]

I used to have a Savage 340 and loaded 150 game kings for it. However, now days, I load 150 Nosler BTs for my 12" TC Contender. They're quite accurate and expand well on deer out to 90 yards, my most distant shot to date. With a BT, you could load one in the barrel and one in the magazine and the magazine follower wouldn't mess up the tip of the bullet. These bullets would be quite deadly on deer size game at rifle velocities. I also shoot 'em in my .308 at just over 2700 fps and they've taken 6 deer and as many hogs for me in that rifle. Don't let anyone tell you they won't penetrate, either. The noslers have a great BC and will add 100 yards + to a rifle's effectiveness.

Waste of time? I think not, unless you just don't need 300 yards effectiveness. I mean, I prefer my .308 as rifles go, but if all you got is the little .30-30, it will give you new capabilities. If you're shooting at 100 yards max, well, six of one, half dozen of the other, I reckon. The main advantage is more effective range, not more effective on the game at shorter ranges.

 

[MCgunner]

From my exterior ballistics print out....

Gun..12" TC Contender

33.5 grains IMR3031
150 Nosler BT

Mean velocity 1988 fps
Standard Deviation 26.34
Mean energy 1314 ft lbs

100 yard velocity = 1816 fps
200 yard velocity = 1663 fps

100 yard energy = 1097 ft lbs
200 yard energy = 922 ft lbs

175 yard zero range

50yrds +1.80 inches
100 yrds + 3.07"
150 yrds + 1.72"
200 yrds - 2.47"

At 200 yards it shoots 3.0" 5 shot groups using a 2x LER 4 moa dot reticle scope.

Now, from a 20" tube, you can achieve 2400 fps from that bullet. You be the judge, but it should give you 300 yard max capability. Is that worth the effort to you? Again, you be the judge. I can say that in my experience, the bullet does the job. I've shot five with the contender, all under 100 yards. 3 were DRT and 2 didn't go far and with a copious blood trail from a decent exit wound. No shot stopped in the animal, no bullet recovered. I've killed 6 deer with the bullet in a .308 at 2700+ fps. All DRT. Five hogs have fallen to the .308 load, biggest was right around 200 lbs, all DRT except one that I butt shot, wound up about 40 yards from where I shot it..in my back yard. It was going away from me and I was determined it wouldn't root my yard again. That bullet shoots 0.75 MOA in the rifle. It's an accurate bullet and I know it expands at around 1800 fps, my longest shot with the Contender as I said being about 90 yards...lasered, BTW.

 

[Don McDowell]

Over the last couple of lustroms of messing with the 30-30, I've come to the conclusion that the best allround bullet from a levergun is the Speer fp bullets, either the 150 or the 170's which ever your rifle shows a preference for.
I do have a box of the Hornady flextip bullets, but have taken the time to do any load work up with them to see if they'll out shoot those Speers or not.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Sorry MCgunner (well not really), but I will disagree with you on this. I've been playing with this 65 year old Winchester Mod 94 .30WCF sense I was 18 and have been reloading for it sense 1986. The only way you are going to get 2400+/- fps is with a 110 grain [pointy] bullet (safely). This is NOT a TC handgun that you can load the snot out of. It is NOT a .308 (infact mine slugs out at .307).

I DO agree with Don. A 170 grain Speer Hotcore FNSP works real well. Especially with 32-33 grains of W-748 under it (2100+/- fps).

Play all the silly games you want and claim all the exagerations you want...It STILL a .30-30 Winchester.

 

[Don McDowell]

Actually there are 12 different loads on Hogdons web that will give 2300 to nearly 2700 fps from 110 gr bullets and still stay in saami specs in the 30-30.
One of the funnest prairiedog rifles you can have is a 30-30 loaded with 110 gr bullets using data from the Hornady #3 manual... it's one that "seekers of the red mist" would envy.
Biggest problem with the 110 gr bullets in any of the 30's is the bullet is short and lacks bc and sd, looses velocity at a rapid pace and therby is limited in affective accuracy range. 125's will cure a lot of those ill's tho..

 

[brainwake]

Seems like a touchy subject every time it comes up. I have a contender with 16" barrel....rifle set up.

I opted to go with the Hornady Leverevolution set up, then bought components to reload for them. This way I can get lazy and just buy a box or get motivated and load some. I haven't taken a deer with it yet, but they shoot well at the range.

 

[Bezoar]

alot of people tell me a regular 16 to 18 inch barrelled 30-30 is just a 100 yard deer gun. but then theyll praise their 12-14 inch barrelled single shot pistol in 30-30 as a 200 yard deer killer because they are now using a 150 grain spitzer instead of a 150 grain flat point.

 

[MCgunner]

Sorry MCgunner (well not really), but I will disagree with you on this. I've been playing with this 65 year old Winchester Mod 94 .30WCF sense I was 18 and have been reloading for it sense 1986. The only way you are going to get 2400+/- fps is with a 110 grain [pointy] bullet (safely). This is NOT a TC handgun that you can load the snot out of. It is NOT a .308 (infact mine slugs out at .307).

I DO agree with Don. A 170 grain Speer Hotcore FNSP works real well. Especially with 32-33 grains of W-748 under it (2100+/- fps).

Play all the silly games you want and claim all the exagerations you want...It STILL a .30-30 Winchester.

Okay, Speer number 11 manual shows 2325 for a top velocity for the 150 in a rifle. Let's just say 2300 fps. I've never chronographed a rifle, just going on what i thought i could remember from the manual, didn't take the time to look. Back when I had that Savage 340, I didn't own a chronograph. Point was, that's considerably more'n the 12" hunter barrel of my Contender. It should be capable of 300 yards with a bullet like the Nosler BT. No need for hatred and vitriol over a reloading discussion. If in doubt, buy some Hornady Leverlution ammo and don't bother reloading for it. Heck, you can stuff those in the magazine all ya want.

 

[MCgunner]

alot of people tell me a regular 16 to 18 inch barrelled 30-30 is just a 100 yard deer gun. but then theyll praise their 12-14 inch barrelled single shot pistol in 30-30 as a 200 yard deer killer because they are now using a 150 grain spitzer instead of a 150 grain flat point.

Well, a lot of people are right. Well, I'd call a typical flat point factory 150 grain .30-30 load a 150 yard round. A good BC does make a difference. Those flat points have all the BC of a cinder block.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Weight for weight simply going to a higher BC bullet inside 30-30's suitable impact velocity window you gain NO added capability at all and in fact may be hampering expansion.

Now a LITTLE can be gained if you add BC AND VELOCITY by dropping down to a lighter bullet such as the 125g nosler B-tip compared to traditional 150g> 30-30 deer bullets.

I've used this projectile to harvest coyote and deer from a 7.62x39 out beyond 250yards quite successfully.


As to actual velocity vs published I've chronied several 30-30's from a 10" revolver to a 24" 788rem. NONE would get anywhere especially close to published numbers EXCEPT my current Springfield 840 with an extremely tight 24" bbl and even it is 50 fps shy of factory federal 150g numbers.

One 22" savage 340 and 170g Remington factory ammo wasn't even cracking 1900 fps!!!!

It will be interesting to see how my 26" encore barrel stacks up once it arrives from MGM

 

[The Bushmaster]

MCgunner...No hatred or vitriol here. I just get tired of people trying to improve what was designed for a particular purpose and claiming that their Winchester mod 94 is magical when it's just a .30-30 with the "BC of a cinder block" (I like that). I have played with Hornady's Leverlution and found no great improvement. Some yes, but not worth it.

Mine is my "go to" rifle over my Browning .30-06. I enjoy the light carry, fast mounting to the shoulder and fast second shot. I was taught a long time ago to track and stalk. I love hunting in the tall timber.