Range Report: 4-day Practical Rifle at Front Sight

[cliffy109]

Its not quite as bad as you would think. First, you might just want to take the pistol course. From a practical standpoint, it might be better "real world" training anyway.

As for equipment, if you do the pistol course, all you need is a strong side holster, 4 mags and carriers to hold 3 of them. For the rifle course, it sounds like you'd do fine with 3 mags and an M16 pouch to hold them. Optics are optional, but I'd bet an EOTech would handle everything you needed. Even a fixed 2.5X does quite well at short to medium ranges on a .223.

Ammo? Well, there are a couple of gun shops that carry cheap ammo in the Vegas area. I used Bills Buy and Sell on Frontier St and bought a case of 1000 PMC .45s for $205, but others use Wallyworld.

Hotel? The Vegas casinos are actually more expensive than I thought they would be. You'll be so tired at the end of the day that gambling and shows will be very low on your list of priorities. Stay in Pahrump at the Saddle West for less than $50 per night. Share the room and rental car with a friend and buy a Gray certificate for $200 at www.fscerts.com and you're ready to go. You'll likely be in and out for less than $1000 and that's a hell of a vacation for the money.

 

[ny32182]

Well, it would be more money in my case. I would have to fly to Vegas. Probably several hundred dollar round trip there and back. I've had to rent a car before, and since I'm under 25, it is about $700 a week for that. How much are the classes? I've always heard somewhere in the 1-2k range depending on the class. I would need probably another 1k worth of gear and ammo at the minimum. Figure $100/day for hotel and food and other misc stuff.

I figure it would cost me somewhere between $3500-$4500 all said and done.

One thing I am surprised at in this report is the figure of 341 rounds fired in four days. Most of the reports I've heard before peg the rounds fired at 400+ per day. That round count would knock several hundred off the cost of ammo at least, but the way I see it, if it is already a major commitment in terms of time and money to be there, you might as well get as much trigger time as possible while you are there.

A pistol course could probably be done for less money, and that is a good idea.

 

[cliffy109]

The certificates you can buy at www.fscerts.com are good for any 4 day Rifle, Pistol or Shotgun course. Regular prices on those courses are $1200. The certs cost $200 and you'll have to shell out $50 for a background check so you're into the class for $250 total. Share the car and hotel with a friend. Flights can be had for less than $300 round trip, but that depeneds on your origin.

If you browse the official web site at www.frontsight.com, you'll get a pretty accurate round count. I think they say 800 for the 4 day pistol and I think I ended up at 760 which included going pretty far in the man-on-man shoot off.

 

[ny32182]

Cliffy... Thanks for the info. That website looks like it says $600 unless I'm missing something, but still cheaper than I expected.

One day I will go.

 

[cliffy109]

Oh dang! You're right. The price went up quite a bit. If you're serious about it, I'd keep an eye on that sight. They will offer specials from time to time. If they ever drop back to $200, pick one up. There is no expiration date on it.

 

[sarhog]

ttbadboy posted:

That website looks like it says $600 unless I'm missing something, but still cheaper than I expected.

I was thinking the same way a few weeks ago. I have since found (and purchased) a gray certificate, which is good for any 4 day class for less than $200. Check the for sale section of this website, and the 1911 forum.
I brief search of round trip fares turned up an average of $233 for a round trip from Atlanta to Vegas.

My plan is to drive out there one day, but it will cost me more in gas than the airfare.

In any event, it is a very inexpensive "vacation".

Good luck.

 

[Paul Gomez]

Thread Drift Alert

A less expensive option is to look at a mobile trainer offering classes in your area. Generally, a 2 day class from a mobile trainer can be had for $350 or so, with much less travel & time expense incurred.

While you, obviously, cannot get the 'dwell time' of a 40 hour program in a 2 day class, you can get exposure to solid skills in a compressed timeframe.

Don't put off training because you feel that you must make a journey to Mecca for your initial training experience.

 

[LiquidTension]

ttbadboy - we'll have to get together and split the cost or something. After I find a job, of course. I'm 25 so the car rental could be cheaper.

I'd love to take a class like this, but I'd rather do it with a FAL carbine instead of my full size STG. Guess I need a new upper eh? I could take my 84S I suppose, but I think the FAL is more ergonomic than the AK. Don't own an AR yet.

Thanks for the report, this is exactly the kind of stuff I need to know before picking which class I want to go to.

 

[ny32182]

Oh... yeah, I would need to finish school first. Hopefully graduating in December.

If I were going today, I would take my LMT carbine.

 

[UnknownSailor]

Taking a class like this is my idea of the ultimate "vacation".

Mine was shortly after coming back from a 6 month deployment to the Persian Gulf. I saved all deployment for it, and enjoyed the hell out of it.
Although, with Pat as the lead instructor, the class kinda blurred the line between "vacation" and work....

 

[444]

I take these classes as my vacation.
I have no interest in laying around a beach somewhere.
I definitely couldn't be bothered taking a vacation to Las Vegas
I can't think of a whole lot I would rather do on a vacation other than spending five days shooting.

If anyone is interested in those Frontsight "Grey" certificates, let me know. I have a bunch of them. I don't know where they are, but I can find them if I have a reason to. So far, I have only given them to women that have an interest in learning to shoot.

"That website looks like it says $600 unless I'm missing something.."
I didn't go and look but I belive a two day class is $600 and a four day class is $1200.

 

[Ian]

On the subject of 2- and 4-day courses - I would really recommend against taking a 2-day class at Front Sight. The first two days are just the tip of the iceberg - you get scads more benefit from the the 4-day classes than the 2. It's definitely worth the extra cost - I know I would have been a bit disappointed to leave after just the first 2 days (the 2-day classes at FS are simply the first 2 days of the 4-day classes).

 

[444]

I totally agree with Ian.
When you take a four day class, the people that are taking the two day class are in your class, they just don't come back after the second day. They get the basics, but miss all the stuff that really drives the points home.

An example is the handgun class. If I remember correctly, after the second day you shoot from concealment for the rest of the class. If you take the two day, you never shoot from concealment.
Again: if I remember correctly: when I took the shotgun class, I think that the two day people never shot slugs ? I think that is right, but my memory is fuzzy.
Whatever, take the four day class or you will regret it.