Range Time Not So Good with Commander

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ColColt

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I love the 1911-I really do but sometimes I feel like just trading them for something else. I went to the range today to try out the XSE Commander after giving it a bit more tension than it had(about 12 ounces) and according to the Weigand extractor tool and my trigger pull gauge I had about 28-30 ounces after adjusting.

I took 150 rounds of three different sorts of ammo to the range this morning and had more malfunctions than I ever had. Bolt over base, FTRTB and one live round standing straight up and one live round found on the floor while another fam was due to the round entering the chaber but not caught up by the extractor. I can only attribute all that to the extractor tension but usually a FTRTB issue is not extractor related. I used the same magazines as before when I only had a couple FTRTB problems prior to adjustment-CM mags with 11# Wolff springs and flat, dimpled followers on GI and Hybrid lip mags. What's going on?

I'm going to re-tention this extractor to about 22-24 ounces and see what happens next time. I'm wasting a lot of ammo to get this pistol to run and am getting close to getting real agitated with it.
 
Not since Tuner turned me onto CM mags with the flat, dimpled follower.:) I have a few Tripp and Wilson mags but all the Wilson's are 8 round mags which I'm trying to steer clear. The Tripp mags are good but I haven't used them in over a month. That was before the tweak with the extractor since it was a bit on the loose side. I did get a FTRTB in my SW1911SC with the Tripp.
 
You've still got a magazine problem, Colonel...unless your slide is cracked in the bushing lug raceway. I had one to drive me nearly 'round the bend once with the same things yours is doing, and only when the slide failed completely did we figure out what it was. It was caused by the owner installing a 20-pound recoil spring without checking for coil bind, and the slide cracked within 50 rounds. 200 rounds later, it broke.

Too bad you're not closer.
 
Each one of those mags were CM's-both Hybrid and GI lip variety with the flat, dimpled follower and Wolff springs. that's what puzzles me more than anything else I suppose. I figured with a possible mag/spring problem taken out of the quotient it had to be something else. I don't know what could be the problem with any of those mags. They're new, the springs are new having been used only 3-4 times. I cleaned the interior of the mag wells, lightly oiled the springs and thought I was good to go. So, I don't know what the mag problem would be.

I ordered a 16# spring from Wolff(under Commander they call it "reduced power") since the 16# spring for the GM was too long and they didn't have a "standard" 16# listed for the Commander.

I wish I was closer to, Tuner. I grew up in Charlotte, which would be a heck of a lot closer, but I've been in TN since 1974 and never left...love them mountains.

This Commander was going to be my carry pistol and I even bought an nice VMII holster for it. If things keep going the way they have, I may have a useless holster as the pistol has to be 100% to instill confidence in it. So far, that ain't happening.
 
It's been recommended to me that I change all the parts and mags I've been using back to factory...the original firing pin stop, slide stop, recoil spring and go back to factory mags. Well, that would just put me back to square one again.

I changed out the original recoil spring to a 16# spring and put in an EGW FPS with a slight radius and went to CM mags all because of having extra insurance about malfunctions. This hasn't helped apparently neither would going back to factory parts. Maybe I just need to sell this one and get a tried and true design like the USP that doesn't take countless hours of tweaking and endless weekends wasting more ammo to see if what was last done/recommended will somehow get this thing to run right. Most disappointed at this time.
 
Maybe the thing to do would be to send it back to Colt and let them fix it so it works right!

rc
 
Is it a lightweight or a steel frame? I have found that my Lightweight needs a bit more grip than my steel XSE.

I had bolt over base failures like you but the wolf +5% springs fixed the problem.
 
I'm trying to avoid sending it back to Colt due to the long wait with them perhaps telling me it's within their specs plus I'd have to put back all the originalo parts...slide stop, recoil spring and FPS. I still have them, however.

The reason for not wanting to use the Wilson 8 round mags, although I have a few, is that the springs are weaker whether I elect to load down or fully load them. Their springs are or have been notoriously weak and the mag lips have been known to crack especially the 47D mags.I can't attest to the new ETM mags.

This is a SS all steel frame XSE Commander. Unfortunately, the Wolff11# springs haven't helped. I'm still wondering about the extractor tension and why it's so finicky. It shouldn't matter if you have 18 or 28 ounces of tension on it I wouldn't think.
 
Extractor tension has nothing to do with a bolt over base failure, I promise! If you were on my side of the country I'd love to take a look for you. I can not believe that it would e anything other than a magazine prob
 
Nope-no cracks. I even took a small 80 lumen Surelite and checked it out from stem to stern. There's a curse on me having 1911's-that's the problem.:)
 
You can't see this particular crack from the outside. It'll be on the inside, adjacent to the wall and in the bottom of the bushing lug raceway. You have to use a screwdriver to lever it and watch to see if the front inch of the slide flexes.
 
I had the slide and frame apart looking at the bushing raceway from the underneath side with barrel, guide rod and spring removed. I didn't seen any crack. I wasn't sure what you meant by using the screwdriver.
 
It's not a crack that you can see without a magnaflux test.

Place the tip into the lug raceway, and the shank against the front of the bushing bore on the opposite side, and push down on the screwdriver. If the front of the slide flexes a little on the side where the raceway is...it's cracked.
 
Sorry, Tuner you've lost me. This pistol has a full length guide rod.
 
This is why a picture is worth a thousand words. Unfortunately, I don't have a camera.

Strip the gun. Bare slide. Stick the screwdriver blade into the bushing lug raceway from the front, against the front wall. Lay the shank on the front face of the slide on the opposite side. Push down on the handle to see if the side with the raceway will flex sideways...even a tiny bit.

The crack is in the bottom of the raceway, in the corner. When the gun is fired, the crack opens and produces short recoil.
 
Nope-If it did I sure couldn't' detect it. You mentioned earlier that I still had a magazine problem. I don't know what it could be since all those I use are CM's with the flat dimpled follower and Wolff 11# springs. The mags are both GI and Hybrid lips. I also have the EGW stop and put the slight radius on it and use the 16# recoil spring.

What the heck is going on? The only other thing I've done is try to put a bit more tension on the extractor since the pistol was giving sporadic feed problems anyway. It measure about 10-12 ounces of pull using the Weigand gauge set up and I gave it probably too much going to 28-30 ounces. I couldn't get though two mags without some problem. I've since then took that tension off and back off to around 22 ounces. I haven't shot it since to verify if that's it or not.

Bottom line, it still wasn't running 100% before or after the extractor tweak. I've given up...don't know what else to try. I sure wish you lived in the neighborhood.
 
The Bolt Over Base misfeed is essentially the slide outrunning the magazine. The slide runs forward before the mag spring can get the round into feeding position, and the bottom of the center rail hits the cartridge in the extractor groove instead of pushing it from behind.

In extreme cases, the slide runs almost completely over the round, jamming the bullet nose hard against the feed ramp. Known as "Rideover Misfeed."

99% of the time, the magazine spring is the culprit. Overspringing the slide can result in short-cycling and produce the same problem, but for different reasons.

Short recoil can also be caused by weak ammunition, or anything mechanical that impedes the slide, such an out of time barrel. Check for damage in the form of a radius on the front corners of the upper lugs. Unlikely with a new, stock Colt, and is most often the result of somebody long-linking the barrel in the misguided attempt to "tighten" the lockup.
 
Here's the thing. With the CM mags and stronger Wolff spring and EGW fps, the slide shouldn't be outrunning the magazine. To further aid feeding I use the flat dimpled follower as you've always recommended. I chose a 16# spring as well.So why would I have a magazine problem? Or a feeding problem? It out to run as smooth as crap through a goose.

This is a new pistol and no one has over sprung it as I only took out the stock spring, whatever it may have been, and replaced it with the 16 pounder. From all outward appearances, it should be slick...it's not. A Commander should run smoother than this and definitely not have the problems I've mentioned. Checked the upper lugs anyway and they look fine.

I'm beginning to wonder if the CM mags and flat metal followers are all they're cracked up to be.
 
The dimple only helps to control the last round. The hybrid lips...a blending of the full-tapered GI "Hardball" lips and the timed-release "Wadcutter" type. I've seen those magazines smooth out a lot of rough feeders, and turn a few jammin' jennies into Timex watches.

If the gun is short-cycling, no magazine will help that. Does it feel like the slide runs rough or hits resistance on the way back?

This one's a stumper. I'd sure like to take a look at it.
 
If the gun is short-cycling, no magazine will help that. Does it feel like the slide runs rough or hits resistance on the way back?
Click to expand...

Nope-Feels pretty smooth to me. Of course there's that little step when it passes over the disconnector but it's very light. All in all, hand cycling it couldn't be much smoother. I ran four rounds through it with two different mags tonight, one hybrid CM and a Tripp mag and it fed and ejected all four with both mags...go figure. Of course, it did that before range time last Friday as well but choked at the range so, hand feeding don't tell you much as I thought.
 
do you know anyone around you with a ETM mag?...if you where closer you could try one of mine....yes hand cyclin' will tell the whole tale.....i just don't push ETM's for the fun of it....they have made a lot of 1911's run fine with them....if your stuck on usin' stock mags send to back to Colt with the trouble mag and let them fix it...
 
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