So I went to the range today and shot my first reloaded .357 magnum rounds through my Ruger LCR. They were all loaded with 158 gr. X-treme plated SWC bullets under various charges ranging from 4.7gr W231 to 6.4gr W231...and 13.0gr 2400 to 15.2gr 2400. My concern is that I was getting hit with copper shards in the face and hands at all the charge weights. I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem. I am wondering if it is a crimp problem or a dirty forcing cone issue. Let me know what you think
Range Trip with First .357 Magnum Reloads
- Thread starter djboo4you
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I Think your 15.2 2400 load & your 6.4gr W231 load is well over a recommended load for plated bullets.
You may be stripping the plating off with those Max and near Max loads.
Plated bullets occupy a place between lead bullets and conventional jacketed bullets.
Berry says to use mid-range Jacketed bullet data.
Ranier says to use lead bullet data.
I don't know what X-treme says, but I'm pretty sure it isn't to use MAX load jacketed bullet data.
You may also be getting unburned powder granules out of the short barrel blown back at you, and not brass frags.
rc
You may be stripping the plating off with those Max and near Max loads.
Plated bullets occupy a place between lead bullets and conventional jacketed bullets.
Berry says to use mid-range Jacketed bullet data.
Ranier says to use lead bullet data.
I don't know what X-treme says, but I'm pretty sure it isn't to use MAX load jacketed bullet data.
You may also be getting unburned powder granules out of the short barrel blown back at you, and not brass frags.
rc
5thSFGroup
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I purchased a LCR for my wife. I loaded cast bullets at lower pressures for her comfort and have no problems at all. A couple of friends of mine have the same pistol that they carry in their pocket from time to time and practice with cast rounds with no problem at all. It is my understanding as well that plated rounds should be loaded to cast specs. In fact, Ranier states that on their adds.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
interesting thread. the only plated slugs I've loaded were 200gr tc flat point I shot in my Marlin Camp .45acp and my 625 . nowhere near a 'hot load' and they didn't group well at all.
Thanks for the replies guys...here is the thing...I know they are copper shards because i dug one out of my hand and had a piece stuck in my shirt on my shoulder and I wasn't even the shooter at the time. My brother was shooting and I was video taping about 5 feet away. I also got a few cuts on my face from shards, it was as if I was shooting at steel. The 2400 loads I used came from Lyman and were loads for lead 158gr. (Linotype) #358311 Now I understand that 15.2 is pushing the limit...they have it listed at 15.5 Max @ 1344 FPS from a 4" barrel but @13gr I am under that velocity especially with a 1 7/8" barrel. And yes with the 2400 I am getting unburned powder (I was thinking about using a Magnum primer next time around instead of WSP). Now for the W231 loads I used were from LEE for 158gr. lead again and they list 6.2-6.7 for a max velocity of 1275...Here is the funny thing...they list HP38 @ 3.4-5 for a max of 1109 FPS????? I thought this was strange
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
No, "here is the thing"...BAck off!
They are plated bullets.
Not lead bullets, or jacketed bullets.
SO you can't use them with MAX loads for either lead bullets, or Jacketed bullets.
They won't withstand that much pressure, or velocity.
rc
They are plated bullets.
Not lead bullets, or jacketed bullets.
SO you can't use them with MAX loads for either lead bullets, or Jacketed bullets.
They won't withstand that much pressure, or velocity.
rc
GJgo
Member
One other big thing to consider is that your cylinder may be out of time. That'll cause fragged shards in the face & hands as well.
Alright...Alright...I'll back off...next loads will be some mid range jacketed loads...with plated still. Yes I do have a few books and those top end loads didn't feel much different from the factory 158gr Federal JSP's we were shooting...those packed a punch and a BOOM 
788Ham
Member
Hmmm, "first reloads", somethings wrong, then wants to argue about what needs to be done to stop whats wrong........ Your piece, blow it up, LGS will sell you another one!
Plus one to the back off theory, but maybe a timing issue as well?
Just to be sure it's your loads and not an issue with your revolver, you could shoot some soft lead slugs through it with some cardboard around the gun to check for bullet shaving.
You should catch a nice ring of powder and lube, but if you find shiny lead, that's not good.
As posted, you are driving those bullets pretty hard. I would also make sure my chambers are lining up with the barrel properly. That bullet is a good one, but it can be pushed too hard, and the occasional revolver simply hates plated bullets. Could be a combination of all three, or just one. One thing for sure, something has to change. Check the timing/alignment, and then back off the charges.
Thank You everyone for your feedback...I really appreciate it. I will check the timing and also back off on the charge. I also have some 125gr. plated from x-treme so I will load some of those and see if it is just the bullet or a combination. Also I am going to back off on the crimp due to the reduced charge and see if that helps too
gamestalker
member
RC is right again, you are probably over the recomended charge for those plated bullets. You can push plated pretty good, but at some point your going to start striping the plating off and it will sting a bit when it blows back. And remember that it is a revolver, and that revolvers always spit back in your face regardless of what your loading.
GS
GS
I couldn't make xtreme 44mags work even at 1200fps, your forcing cone probably has laminated layers of copper tinfoil in it. I went thru 300 test rounds trying to make them work. I'm not sure they'll work at any speed in a revolver. I also saw them break up at 1200fps in a 9mm. They work perfectly in 40s&w at 875 fps.
I spent days trying to fix your problem, and now shoot oregon trail lasercast lead bullets -- they're about the same price if you buy 1000 at a time - watch their wepbsite for specials.
xtreme is a great company, I'll be a 40s&w customer of theirs for life. I just found out they sold their machine that makes jacketed .223's -- they were fantastic and youncouldn't beat the price. Now I'm searching for a new .223 provider.
edfardos
I spent days trying to fix your problem, and now shoot oregon trail lasercast lead bullets -- they're about the same price if you buy 1000 at a time - watch their wepbsite for specials.
xtreme is a great company, I'll be a 40s&w customer of theirs for life. I just found out they sold their machine that makes jacketed .223's -- they were fantastic and youncouldn't beat the price. Now I'm searching for a new .223 provider.
edfardos
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buck460XVR
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Are you using a roll crimp with those rounds? Roll crimping on plated bullets can cut thru the thin plating causing it to separate when shot. Separated jackets do not like being squeezed thru a forcing cone.
JRadice45
Member
+1 to what Buck said. To check this make a dummy cartridge with the die settings the same. Now pull the round apart with an impact puller, get a loupe or magnifying glass and inspect the bullet where you see the crimp, If you see the plating fractured you are crimping too much. I stopped loading plated in 38 spl for this reason. I could not get a crimp on my rounds where they bullets wouldnt jump crimp during recoil.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
longdayjake
Member
X-treme didn't sell just their .223 machine. They sold the entire company. The company that bought them out has moved the machine to their ammo manufacturing plant and is using the bullets to load into their own ammunition. My guess is that after the election, .223 ammo will stop selling by the trillions and they will have some surplus to put back on the market. However, don't be surprised if it shows up under a different name. In fact, don't be surprised if X-treme bullets has a name change.
Now, to the OP. One thing you will need to remember about plated bullets is that even if the plating can handle higher velocities, they will obturate much easier than a jacketed bullet so you may find that you can reach the same pressure/velocity with a plated bullet using a lesser charge. I know you are new to this so you most likely don't have a chronograph so until you can compare chrono loads you should probably stick near the middle of the road. The good news is that I just barely came back from x-treme and found that they are developing a new "thick-plating" that is supposed to be as thick as a speer TMJ. They look absolutely beautiful and they even have the same concave base as a speer tmj.
How were your groups?
I am using a Lee 4 hole turret and in the 4th position I am using the LFC Die...to my knowledge...and correct me...the LFC die in .357/38spl is a roll crimp...and I was putting some good crimp on them due to the threat of crimp jump...basically I made them look like a factory round...not extreme but you can tell there is a crimp. I will pull some and look under 10x lupe and see if I can see any cracking. As far as my groups...if thats what you can call them...they were all center mass at 5-7 yards???? not great but all on paper where it counts
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