rant... took my kids shooting today

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1KPerDay

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First things first: the kids were great. Better than great. My 11 year old boy is hitting about 8 out of 10 hand-thrown clays with a 20 gauge Winchester 1200 now, only his second time out with a shotgun. My 9 year old daughter was nailing plastic bottles with her .22 like it was going out of style.

However, I was quite disturbed by the behavior of my fellow gun enthusiasts. I drove quite a way past the usual outdoor shooting area, generally populated with yahoos and idiots who litter and shoot in every direction and generally make me fear for my life. We found a (what I thought was) secluded area up against a hill and took the time to set up some water-filled plastic orange juice bottles (which we save to shoot, then recycle).

Get the kids geared up, load up, get a few shots off, then two guys in a car drive further up the hill on an access road and sit there. About 100 yards downrange from us. We're all standing on the firing line holding shotguns; there's no mistaking what we're doing. After a minute a guy gets out, walks across the hill in front of us, and walks down into a ravine at our right. I wait about 5 minutes. Then I walk up to see if the driver has any idea what he's doing or how inconsiderate he's being.

I ask if he's shooting. He says no. I ask where his buddy went. He says they were shooting there earlier and his buddy thinks he may have lost something and he'll be back in a minute. I say okay and walk back.

About 10 minutes of us standing there in the snow, they finally leave. So we start to get set up to shoot again.

Another truck drives up the hill. Thankfully they go quickly and disappear around the corner and up the mountain. So after a couple minutes I figure we're okay to shoot shotshells.

Another SUV drives up the road and stops right about where my shotgun barrel naturally points. Guy gets out. farts around for about 2 minutes. Goes back to his car. Starts to get crap out to shoot.

UNFRICKINBELIEVABLE.:banghead: I'm absolutely livid. It's not like this is the only area to shoot out here. There's a billion acres in every direction. Can't find another hill? Fine, let's move, kids. Pick up the bottles, pack up the clays, unload the guns, take out the earplugs and stow the eye protection.

So I spin around, drive down the hill, find another road even further out of the way, drive up for another 10 minutes.

Just before the road ends at a nice backstop/hill, we pass 4 guys coming down in a car. A few seconds later we arrive at the place they just left. I'm absolutely speechless. There is garbage everywhere. A couple of large cardboard boxes that had clays or other junk in them. Ammo boxes. shotshells everywhere. This is on white snow. This isn't an obvious garbage dump. This was a pristine area. And they just dump all their crap at their feet and drive away. I'm so mad I can barely speak. How can people do this? Their parents raised them to believe it was acceptable to do this?? And apparently their kids will do the same? I explain to my kids that there's a special place in hell for these types of people, the same type who refuse to flush public toilets and who throw their cigarette butts and McDonald's wrappers out the window of their trucks.

We finally get to shoot, have a great time, and then when we're all numb from the cold, spend an extra 5 minutes picking up all the crap the other guys left (along with our shells, bottles, garbage, etc.).

I'm seriously disappointed. :fire:
 
It's maddening to see behavior like that. It's one thing to be a bit lax about policing your shells at a sporting clays range; it's quite another when shooting in the wilderness. At the risk of sounding self-righteous, it's a result of how the person was raised. Old habits die hard.

As for the guy in the SUV that began to set up downrange-- well, it sounds like he was just beyond unobservant :)
 
It's pretty sad how much people litter. I can't believe all the McDonalds wrappers I find all over town. The high school parking lot is really bad too.
 
Good job turning it into a teaching moment for the kids. Hopefully they'll end up more civilized than most of the others.
 
People will disappoint you at every possible opportunity. Quite frankly, I am surprised that you are surprised... I am no "treehugger." I believe in using our resources, eating wildlife, and turning on the lights when i get home, but it sickens me as well when i come across people who live to spread their filth.
 
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. There is a state forest where shooting is legal ten minutes from my house. I refuse to go anymore from having the same sort of experiences you just described. I've got some pretty shocking stories about the whole thing.

I go to a "pay for" range that is almost always empty or some BLM land I discovered an hour and a half from me that absolutely NO ONE goes to. It's so desolate and deserted I can shoot 500 yard shots if I feel like hiking around. It's a lot of equipment to haul everything I want out there (shooting bench etc), so sometimes I make a camping trip out of it.

If you can learn of a spot like that, just don't tell anyone else. Utah probably has lots of desolate BLM land.

Perhaps it's good to let your kids see how the other half lives so they have time to prepare for a world of idiots.
 
You know, I am an avid trout fisherman. I will don my waders and go miles back into the wilderness and just enjoy the time out. I ALWAYS, come across broken fishing gear, Styrofoam bait containers, and tons of other crap left my my fellow fisherman. It makes me sick to my friggin stomach.

We have lost ranges to these types of people, we have lost trout streams to them. It just blows my mind.

I am glad you did finally get to shoot with the kids man and if anything maybe they can learn exactly why trashing the outdoors is a bad thing.
 
When i first went hunting in the Appalachians i was shocked to see how many shotgun-shells i was stepping on every few yards .....

The US has been sooo gifted with nature.
The contrast with its throw-away-society couldn´t be harsher.

I tend to sigh and pick up the stuff, so my eyes arent insulted anymore.
Good on ya for teaching the kids.
 
["We have lost ranges to these types of people, we have lost trout streams to them"]

Most of them are Slob shooters, That's why we lease land to hunt on. Thirty years ago there was more public land to Hunt & Fish Not so more. Good Job teaching your kids
Right from Wrong ; )
Y/D
 
Sometimes with my Scout group in those instances, I'll offer $1 to the Scout who comes back with the fullest trash bag. Teaches them to be prepared and bring a big bag. Gives them a sense of the general trashy nature of the public. But mainly, the place is always cleaner when than when we found it.
 
Unfortunetly this happens in an uncontroled enviroment, public land and all. I have the same problems as we all have. My kids and I have cleaned up a couple of these junkyard shooting ranges out there but they just trash them again. They dont care, its not thiers seems to be the thought. We've taken to getting further off the road and pack out our trash. Next stop is a paid club of some sort.
 
I see this everywhere, but it really comes home at a local public range which is littered, shot up and destroyed on a regular basis.

Where did this mindset originate? I haven't read the wikipedia article cited above, but I will to try and understand this.

My off-the-cuff theory is that as people live in cities and farther away from the land, they get used to others picking up after them. Soon, they consider it to be beneath them to stoop to pick up plastic bottles or empty shotgun shells. They like a nice landscape and a pool, but pay others to make it and keep it that way. We can't be troubled to clean our own homes anymore--we work at Fortune 500 companies so we can earn enough to pay for nannies and gardeners.

How do we get folks to own this problem? The OP is doinq what he can by raising his children to appreciate this tragedy, and I did the same with my children and now my grandchildren. What can we do with other people's children to change things?
 
reminds me of the same way that people treat public golf courses versus private courses.

the sense of entitlement among individuals is growing more and more each day it seems.
 
I agree. I quit, but when I smoked, even if there were butts all over I would put it out and throw the filter in the trash, or take with me to a trash can, just because I felt like an ***** tossing it. Many people don't think like that unfortunately.
 
I've seen this too, in some national forest land here in Colorado. Very disturbing. My buddy and I came across at least 3 acres of inch-deep trash, shell casings, beer and soda cans, shot-up TV's, fast-food containers and of course several perforated live trees.

This area was right by a road where people bike and hike. I'm sure it gives non-shooters a wonderful impression of gun owners.
 
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Cosmoline, no... the dirt road runs up the left side of the hill, then over and around a curve and back up the mountain. There are jeep roads crisscrossing everywhere out there.

kmc, south/west of saratoga springs.

Rust collector, that may be part of it. My theory is they were raised either:

1. by moronic, inconsiderate boobs who taught them the behavior by example
2. by parents who never made them do anything for themselves, pick up their rooms, clean their own laundry, wash the dishes, etc.

I suspect the former.
 
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