Rant warning: Cabela's, Sportsmens Warehouse, etc

[Monkeyleg]

Caveat: anyone who's read my posts for the past year or so knows that I have a vested and somewhat monied interest in seeing independent gun stores survive.

And so do you, if you believe in being able to buy handguns, or Evil Black Rifles, or even ammunition.

There's a lot of 2nd Amendment purists here on THR, as well as hard-core "from my cold dead hands" types.

Maybe that's why keyboards are cheaper than guns. Or at least easier to buy.

When WalMart stops selling guns in CA, and Dick's takes over Galyan's and stops selling handguns, and K-Mart stops selling anything that Rosie O'Donnell objects to...aren't you hearing the message? Or is your tinfoil hat so thick that you can't hear the news?

Sportsmens Warehouse, Galyan's, Dick's, Gander Mountain, WalMart, KMart, and all of the other big discount chains are controlled by boards of directors who just ask the anti's when to bend over and how far. God forbid they should stand up for the Second Amendment.

Their only job is to use the Second when and if it pleases their customer base. If not, bye-bye.

I ask often for recommendations about quality gun shops all over the country, and for reasons that I hope most here understand.

The two most comments I hear are: great prices, but poor selection; or great selection, but high prices.

The two are mutually exclusive. You cannot run an independent store and deliver both.

Unless you run a discount chain like the ones mentioned above.

Of course, the discount stores can spread out the profits and losses across the coasts, meanwhile gouging people on every other item.

But what about the independent shop owner who carries compact .45's, or AK's, or--gasp!--Barrett .50's?

Well, if enough of you think it's worth saving a few bucks to frequent the discount stores, that independent will be out of business.

Soon.

And then where will you buy your handguns, or Evil Black Rifles. Or even your handgun ammo, should Rosie O prevail?

If any of you think I'm paranoid (and I know that at least Hunter Rose thinks so ), consider this: the anti's have re-examined their strategies and adjusted. We're still thinking of them in terms of what they did in the 1990's.

They're not trying to ban whole classes of guns. In fact, they're usually not even trying to ban any classes of guns.

What they're trying to do is ban the sale of certain guns.

Same outcome, but entirely different approach.

An approach that Sportsmens Warehouse, Galyans, Dick's, WalMart, KMart, and all the others will buy. It's piecemeal gun-grabbing, and those corporate types will abide that.

So, who's your friend? The corporate types who will undercut your local shop by $10? Or the independent shop owner who will continue to stock the guns that the anti's want to eventually ban?

Those who don't like smoking may not appreciate this analogy, but it's true: the hard-core anti-smokers didn't try to ban cigarrettes, but rather tried to reduce the areas where smokers could smoke, and the outlets where smokers could buy cigs.

The anti-smokers started long before the anti-gunners, and the anti-gunners learned a lot from the efforts.

Target used to sell cigarettes and ammunition; they don't now. KMart used to sell cigarettes and guns and ammunition; they don't now.

Is it worth it to you to save $10 or even $50 on a gun, knowing that the mega-mart store you bought it from may sell your rights down the river next year?

The absolute and only defenders of Second Amendment rights are the independent gun shop owners who respond to the anti's with a middle finger, and continue to sell the guns that you want.

It's your choice.

 

[Elmer]

It's an old, sad story.....

I was working in a gun store more than 30 years ago, when customers would want us to beat Kmart's price on Remington shotguns. They sold them for less than our cost.

But they would bring them to us when they had a problem with them.

That store couldn't stay in business doing 20 dollar gunsmithing jobs. Long gone now.........

 

[nico]

I can see your point, but what do you do when your local gun shop doesn't have the gun you want and Cabelas, et. al. do?

 

[No_Brakes23]

This more than dead horse topic assumes that one has a choice between a good local store and a big chain. Not all of us have both or even either.

For me, I usually shop at Turner's, a SoCal chain of stores that usually has good selection, good service, and good prices.

If one of these mythical good ole fashioned mom & pop gun stores appears around here somewhere, I will be more than happy to spend my money there.

Till then it is mix of Big Chain, Gun Shows and Online for my money.

When I lived in Yuma, AZ, I was more than happy to shop at Sprague's instead of Wally World. But the slobs at Yuma Coin and Gun got very little of my money.

 

[Lord Bodak]

I agree. The only gun I've ever bought from one of the chain stores is my 10/22. My gun store is almost always cheapest, and when the aren't, they're usually within $20 of the chain stores.

I bought the 10/22 at Dick's because it was in stock. Special ordering a rifle that half the chains in the country sell didn't make sense.

 

[wasrjoe]

I have a Sportsman's right by me. It sells EBRs, evil pistols, and lots of other types of arms. They also sell Wolf 7.62x39. They just don't sell used guns. Not sure what your beef with them is.

 

[Monkeyleg]

No_Brakes23, what's wrong with The Grant BoysThe Grant Boys ? They're not far from you, and from what I'm told they're independent.

Let me put a bit of history behind my rant: back in the early 1990's, the city of Madison, WI (the Berkley of the Midwest) put a ban on the sale on handguns, and extreme prohibitions on the transport of all othe arms through the city.

Considering that I-94 and I-90 go right through Madison, that was a real sticky problem. Especially for hunters headed up north for deer season. They could get arrested for just having cased, unloaded guns in the trunks of their cars.

We got a pre-emption bill passed that neutered Madison's laws. But there's still enough political pressure that only a couple of Madison gun stores are brazen enough to sell handguns, even though it's legal.

Galyan's ain't one of them.

Nico, what you do is have them order the gun for you. Oftentimes, you'll save money.

I didn't just decide to post this rant tonight for fun. This week, I had at least two shops who've been in business get zoned out of business. Years and years of giving gun owners what they want, and the city fathers said, "oh my God! A gun store! We can't have that!"

As I said before: the anti's have changed strategy. They're not going for the Big Prize now, meaning banning all guns.

If they can run the small shops out of business, ban .50 caliber rifles here and there, make Massachessets gun store owners nervous about what they can and cannot sell, put Illinois buyers on the defensive every time they even think about looking at a gun, threaten NJ folks for even thinking about owning a gun....well, the anti's have won.

And if you think the creased-pants MBA's who sit on the boards of Galyan's, Sportsmen's, and the other chains care more about your Second Amendment rights than peeing down their trouser legs at the sight of Alec Baldwin on Oprah, think again.

The future of the independent gun stores is seriously jeopordized. They're being undercut on price, and they're being squeezed out. Stores in large metro areas are often able to adapt, but the stores in smaller towns are being driven under.

Ten years from now...you go to the independent shop that used to be there. They're gone. You go to Sportsmen's Warehouse and ask them to order a slide stop for a Springfield Champion, and get the answer, "sorry, company policy prohibits us from dealing in handguns or handgun parts. See those Million Mom mommies outside? They already want us to stop selling 870's, decoy's, camouflage clothing, bird calls, blinds, and anything else to do with hunting."

"And the state senate has already voted 73 to 31 to outlaw the sale of those items."

 

[rick_reno]

I have a Sportsman's right by me. It sells EBRs, evil pistols, and lots of other types of arms. They also sell Wolf 7.62x39. They just don't sell used guns. Not sure what your beef with them is.

The one up here sells used long guns - I don't know where they get them, but they've got a rack full of them.

 

[bearmgc]

Cabelas did get involved in promoting Kerry for president, and coincidently pared down their rifle offerings and ammo selection in their catalogues. If there was a connection, I don't know for sure. But, I used to buy ammo from them using my club points, and don't anymore, because there's not much that I see in their catalogues anymore. Clothes has become the big deal now, and I thought, too bad, since they had at one time built a reputation and following among hunters. So, is this a new direction for them?

 

[Logan5]

Didn't Cabellas buy Gander Mountain? Anyway, don't worry too much. I think I ordered a set of realtree camo from Cabellas in 1995, and I have a friend who bought a Uberti Colt Walker repro. Other than that, I still go to my local, non chain gun store, which is happy to order me a $99.95 SMLE from Aim surplus for only $250 out the door.

 

[WayneConrad]

Sportsman's Warehouse not only sells quite a nice selection of short & long guns at decent prices, they have reloading stuff for not much more than mail-order prices, and tons of ammo. The only thing missing is used guns, which in my area don't come much cheaper than new, and milsurp, which my C&R lets me mail-order.

And unlike most of my local gun stores, Sportsman's Warehouse allows me to carry openly or concealed without requiring me to unload. I'd rather go there than to a gun store that turns me into a sheep and increases the chance of a negligent discharge (which can't happen if the gun isn't handled).

Between a "must unload" gun store and Sportsman's Warehouse, can you guess which one I think is actually anti?

 

[Matthew748]

I hear you about supporting local shops. I try to do that, but here is my dilemma, what do you do when service falls off at the “local” shop to the point that you receive down right rude treatment from some employees? My last couple of experiences at the shop I usually frequent have been surprisingly poor. In fact, they rate below the experiences I have had at the gun counter at Walmart (I know how scary that sounds).

There are a few other small business gun shops in my area that I intend to check out. With any luck I’ll find one that has a decent sales staff, fair prices, and the ability to order a wide array of firearms. When I find a shop that meets those criteria, they will get my business.

 

[repsychler]

I feel the same way as Matthew748. Back when I lived in Minnesota, none of the local independant shops did a dang thing to get or keep my business. I'd get better service (and many times better prices) at Gander and Sportsmans Warehouse.
The only exception I found was a shop up north. (Oasis Sport shop in Pequot Lakes, for the Minnesotans on here) They kept a pretty good balance of selection and price, and service was second to none. I would stop there at least once any time I was up north, and would buy from them as often as I could.

 

[MountainPeak]

Monkeyleg makes a good point, but I haven't bought from local shops for better than two years. Their prices isn't what turned me off. Primarily I got tired of spending thousands of dollars a year, and still being treated like stranger in them. Secondarily, they carried virtually nothing for my reloading needs. I found out a neighbor of mine is a FFL. I've purchased my last 7 firearms through him. He gets me great prices, and I get to deal with someone that appreciates my business. It's also nice to have someone to shoot the "firearms" breeze with. Sportsman's Warehouse meets my reloading needs with selection and good pricing.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Monkeyleg,

Your rant is mostly the same anti-big-company nonsense you hear from WTO protestors, with a thin coating of Second Amendment on top to disguise the taste.

You give no evidence at all that small gun shops losing business to chains on uncontroversial items has anything to do with getting zoned or legislated out of business.

Why cry for the mom-and-pop gun store? The mom-and-pop grocery is gone: they couldn't compete. The mom-and-pop record stores have been replaced by Amazon and Best Buy. Something is lost and something is gained. It's the nature of the evolution of the market.

Yeah, the market. People vote with their feet, and with their dollars. High overhead, poor management and low buying power may make small gun shops unable to compete on many products. I'd be pretty stupid to pay more to support a store that isn't smart enough to find their niche -- a niche not being served by the megamart, with its selection of fifteen different hunting guns.

The mom-and-pop hardware store in my area seems to be doing fine, with two Home Depot stores withing 20 minutes' drive. Why? They carry stuff the big store doesn't; they bend pipe to order; they rent power tools by the hour or the day; and they have people that know what they are talking about.

The market is always right. If the big stores "drive the little guy out of business" by selling the same goods for a better price, that's life.

If the big stores were to then stop selling what we need, guess what? That's called a "market opportunity" -- one that will be exploited by some savvy new gun store owner, who will open a "EBRs-and-CCWs-R-Us" and make a killing, being the only shop in town like that.

To ask people to act against their economic interests is a losing proposition, and doomed to fail.

Mom-and-pop gun shops need to evolve or die. The good ones will, and we don't need the bad ones.

 

[Dave Dembinski]

What are we meant to do when we can't FIND these mom-and-pop gun stores? Gunshopfinder is a great resource, but it only lists three shops in my area, and 1 of them has no information beyond a city and phone number. Sorry, but I value my time more than to spend it hunting down a business that refuses to advertise. Even a basic Geocities webpage that says "This is where we are, these are our hours, this is the kind of stuff we carry" would be enough for me, but finding a place that has even that much is a rarity.

It reminds one of the kid who sets up a lemonade stand on his front porch and sits there all summer, wondering why he never gets much business.

 

[kumma]

Dick,

You'll be pleased to know I buy most of my guns from an advertiser on you site. He offers great service and nice prices. Unfortunatly I just saw your site for the first time today. As far as other gun shops in my area most of them seem to be hang outs for the good old boy network, try going into one and getting some decent service or help most likely you wont. Asfar as your Cabelas rant, some of the best service on a sale I received was from Cabelas, the salesmen was an older fellow who has been in the business for years, the price was a bit higher than some other shops but his service at the counter was worth it. I wish I could say the same for many other small shops.

Craig

 

[2nd Amendment]

I never do business with the chains. The reason is what Mr Payne misses: None of these organizations is interested in fair business practices. Our local Wally World gutted the downtown, then jacked prices in an observable fashion and took the attitude, literally, of "we don't have to price match, we have no competition".

And somjething is lost, somjething gained? Exactly what has been gained? Exactly what has been gained? Book prices continue to climb, music prices continue the same path, US companies are forced out due to Wal Mart purchasing practices which demand sales at cost or below from them... But we can buy on the internet or all under one big, impersonal roof. Those are gains? Sorry, no, those are just more losses.

But in the end this IS a dead horse topic because the majority of people really do think this has something to do with normal market forces and they really don't see either the loss or the eventual outcome. So buy what you can while you can. The corporate weenies will fix that soon enough. And there are those who will see that as a gain, too.

 

[Chris Rhines]

What Matt said. Small gun stores are not being driven out of business by large chain stores - they are being driven out of business by poor service and lack of business savvy.

The two small, independent gun stores in my area, Gilbert's and Atlantic Guns, well, Atlantic has terrible prices, a tiny selection, charges through the nose for transfers, and customer service ranges from average on down. Gilbert's is worse. Both those shops could go out of business, and it would be nothing less than what they deserve.

When I need to buy gun-related stuff (rare, since I'm a dealer,) I drive the ninety minutes down to Quantico Arms. They have competitive prices, and the service there is top-notch, plus they carry lots of exotic hardware. They're in no danger from Wal-Mart and Dicks - they may as well be in a totally different business.

If a small shop wants to stay in business, they need to cater to the market in a way that the big box chains cannot. This is not hard, and I have no sympathy for the small shop that fails for lack of trying. Most small shops, these days, are not trying.

- Chris

 

[armoredman]

I buy household supplies at WalMart, except meat, as thier meat sucks. Albertsons has the best meat counter...
I do not buy firearms at WalMart, and darn little ammo, since I started reloading. I buy components from good people on the net, and from companies online, or local gunshops, when not hideously overpriced, (they wanted $15 to order a 7.62x54R shell holder and case lenght gauge for a Lee trimmer - got both plus primer pocket cleaner and chamfer tool for under $14 shipped), as WalMart doesn't carry powder or primers.
I have heard Sportsmans' Warehouse was going to open in Marana, but don't see any activity. Would be nice - clsest gunshop in 1/2 hour drive on the freeway, at $2.20 a gallon for gas....

 

[feedthehogs]

If you buy at sears, the gap, home depot, etc, they are all chain stores.
Nothing wrong with buying the same merchandise at lower prices. It is after all our way of economics here in the good ol US of A.

I think most are annoyed because the cheap chain stores don't sell gun stuff or restrict what they sell and they have to deal with the local, most of the time stuck up, know it all gun stores.

Everybody is missing the point about chain store policy.

The reason they change policy is because the antis yell louder than the lazy fat slob gun owners out there.

 

[grimjaw]

Maybe it's more location dependent than company dependent?

I've been to several Gander Mountain locations in Ohio. They have a good selection of long guns, OK selection of handguns, they do sell used, and will order what they don't have. However, prices at the Sportsman's I visited on Friday in Washington state were better, as was selection. (No used stuff, though) They did stock a couple of AR's, probably could have ordered whatever I wanted. Never been in a Cabelas, Dicks, and been years since I've been in a Bass Pro.

I do shop at the independent shops for some things. The market being what it is, people are going to shop where they can get better prices. I can't reasonably afford to pay an extra $50-150/gun.

jmm

 

[Dan Johnson]

Monkeyleg;
Your posts reminds me of the tactics the liberals use, half truths and blanket condemnations abound. How many of these "creased pants" executives you villify do you actually know. I've hunted with some of them and they are like you and me, they like guns and support the 2A. Blaming corporate America for everything is a liberal tactic. I'd expect a more fair-minded approach from a rational conservative. These people you condemn are in fact spending big bucks through organizations like NSSF to stop the anti's backdoor gun control schemes.

I agree these chains make it difficult for small shops to survive, but that is an issue of economics. Let's not blame them for all our ills.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Bearmgc wrote, "Cabelas did get involved in promoting Kerry for president".

That's not true. Kerry did ask to hold a question and answer session at one of Cabela's stores and was granted permission to do so. I've talked to the folks at Cabela's about this and their thinking was it would be nice for their customers to have a chance to tell him what they think of him. Kerry never showed up.

Bush did hold a couple such events at Cabela's stores though.

 

[jefnvk]

Their only job is to use the Second when and if it pleases their customer base. If not, bye-bye.

No, their jobs are to make money, nothing more, nothing less. Firearms account for so little of their purchase, that if they are causing them problems, they are just going to give them up.

As for Cabelas, I was there yesterday, and there were plenty of EBR's, and a very long case of handguns.