Rant warning: Cabela's, Sportsmens Warehouse, etc

[MillCreek]

I can say that here in the Seattle area, we have a notable shortage of the 'big box' sporting/gun stores mentioned by others in this thread. We have no Cabelas, no Dick's, no Gander Mountain, no Bass Pro and no Sportsmen's Warehouse (although there is one across Puget Sound in Silverdale and another 300 miles away in Spokane or Kennewick). The closest thing I can think of to a 'big box' store is Sportco in Fife, about 110 miles round trip from me. We have the Big 5 and Sports Authority chains, but they sell next to nothing firearms related, as do the local Wal-Marts, which are pretty much only good for WWB ammo and a small selection of long guns.

And there frankly are not all that many 'mom and pop' gun stores around here either. To the extent that I do buy a firearm at a 'bricks and mortar' store, I probably go to Sam's guns in south Everett the most. Sam's and Adventure Sports are about it for Snohomish county. But there just aren't many options for us in the Seattle area. There is one gunshop/range on the Eastside in Bellevue, but they are tremendously overpriced.

So I am envious of those forum participants who do live in an area served by one or more of the 'big box' stores or who have a good selection of mom and pop stores. I would love to have the option of choosing where to spend my money.

 

[Zundfolge]

...I'm still concerned about large corporations dominating the gun business. It's very easy for them to cave to Political Correctness.

Thing is they don't dominate the gun business ... and if they cave to Political Correctness they lose even more share of the gun business.


Best thing in the world for "mom & pop" is for the big box stores to sell less gun stuff.


Its not like the big box stores have the power to prevent anyone from going into business selling something they've stopped selling for PC reasons.


As long as there is a market for guns there will be someone out there fulfilling it.

So I am envious of those forum participants who do live in an area served by one or more of the 'big box' stores or who have a good selection of mom and pop stores. I would love to have the option of choosing where to spend my money.

the free market abhors a vacuum ... sounds like Snohomish County, Washington might be a good place to look into opening a gun shop

 

[onrhander]

Was in the local Wally world yesterday,in spoprting goods.(buying a floation/life vest for granddauther, (she had a problem in a swimming pool sat.) Surprize no guns! The display cases had some fishing lures and what all but otherwies empty. This one also has never,to my knowlege,carried the WWB 100rd.boxes of .45 ammo. :banghead: They now don't have .45 at all. Oh well the Dick's Sporting Goods does,their 150 rd. box of factory reloads is $26.95($24.95 on sale) They(Dick's) don't carry hand guns, but I found a small, loical shop that has many used guns and will do FFL transfers for $20. Can you say "market nich?

 

[chopinbloc]

then again, if the corporate types see that they make a profit off firearm sales, wouldn't that prompt them to continue to make a profit? i have a local shop bigborecustom.com that gives me a very good price on ammo. ($99/ 500rds lake city xm193) and does excellent gunsmithing. he specializes in high-end stuff but has some things that are affordable. i go to him first because i like him. my friend works at a pawnshop and i check them out first for used guns. i shop at sportsman's warehouse alot, too. i am not going to spend considerably more money on something just because the local shop "needs" my business. i will spend my money where i think i get the best value. that may be because a big box store allows me to make one trip, it may be because one store has a better price or it may be because the other store just doesn't have what i want. don't try to scare me into paying extra for what i don't really want with "they'll take all your guns." i've made enough compromises and mistakes to know better. if your local store gives me what i need, great, i do like them more, but if not the big guys might get my business or even the internet.

 

[HankB]

Should one still patronize the local gun shop when they buy stuff from the local megastore and then mark it up?

As for service, so far I've experienced better treatment at one of the local big box stores (specifically, Sportsman's Warehouse) than I have at some of the local gun shops, which seem to be run by anything from lazy "good 'ol boys" who don't want to talk to anyone but their buddies to out and out lying swindlers.

Couple better prices - sometimes, SIGNIFICANTLY better - with a better selection and better service, and I'll go to the megastore . . . for which (to borrow a country song lyric) "I ain't wrong, I ain't sorry, and I'm probably gonna do it again."

 

[toivo]

Small gun stores are not being driven out of business by large chain stores - they are being driven out of business by poor service and lack of business savvy.

No, they're being driven out of business by what's called "economies of scale." The biggest buyer gets the best deal and the biggest seller can offer the lowest mark-up and still make enough to keep the doors open. Nobody goes out of business unless they have competitors that can exploit their weaknesses. The chain stores' advantage is sheer size. That's not Mom and Pop's fault.

I believe in competition and free enterprise. I also believe that communities have the right to keep chain stores out through zoning if they want--who needs the traffic and the eyesore? I also don't believe in giving them tax breaks to come into a community. Why give the big guy a hand? It's the little guy who needs it. Corporate welfare is the worst kind.

 

[GreenFurniture]

Should one still patronize the local gun shop when they buy stuff from the local megastore and then mark it up?

That's an interesting question. I do not know of any gun stores off hand that practice this tactic, but I have a friend who owns several "Texaco" branded C-stores and gas stations who sends a box truck to Sam's Warehouse once a week to pick up cases of "Havoline" and "Texaco" branded motor oil and related items. He says that the WalMart Corporation buys the majority of the production run and it is cheaper for him to buy it there than to get it from his primary source, the very same company.

WalMart buys up 51%+ off all production for what they sell. They do this with everything from flea collars to dish washers.

 

[W Turner]

I had a close friend who ran his own shop. Actually his father started it and he took over when he passed away. My experience from watching him and (sometimes) stepping behind the counter when he was busy was eye-opening to say the least.

The Good
-my friend was extremely knowledgeable about firearms and shooting in general
-he usually kept a varied selection of used guns and would discount them heavily for regular customers
-he was an amateur gunsmith who could handle most repairs up to and including reassembling the dreaded box of gun
-wide selection of ammo with everything fomr .22short to 7mmSTW
-$15 transfers from other FFL's

The Bad
-his markup on some ammo was ridiculous, $150 for a case of Wolf 7.62x39?
-his pricing was schizophrenic on new guns. I actually received two different prices on the exact same gun depending on what kind of mood he was in. One day it was $575OTD (NIB Glock 35 after they had first come out) the next week it was $650 + tax. When I called him on it, the higher price stood.
-He really seemed to think that playing Playstation 2 all day and only stopping to help customers qualified as working his butt off.
-No transfers from individuals, said it was illegal according to the ATF eve after I showed him the ATF FAQ website... :banghead:
-His response to customers who said "I can get it for $XXX at Wal-Mart."? Then take your money there. Accurate, but not CS oriented.

The Ugly
-I have moved away form the area, but the last I heard, he is still runnig his dad's business into the ground
-Customer Service, or a lack thereof, I frequently saw him put off handling special orders for customers b/c he "just didn't feel like calling all those distributers" that day. -If someone who appeared to be a newbie to guns came in and asked about a brand of firearm other than a Glock (he was a stocking dealer) he would immediately switch to used-car salesman mode and try to talk them into a Glock. ** I like glocks and shoot one in IDPA, but I realize they are not the answer for everyone..I have actually seen him lose a sale on a HK P7M13 that the customer had already located just because my friend tried to talk him into a Glock before reluctantly agreeing to order it. He told the customer that it would take at least two weeks to order the weapon FROM ANOTHER DEALER IN OUR STATE!!!

I frequent four or five gun shops in my area and they are all different, but I will give each an opportunity to match/beat an online or box-store price

I will take the online price of a gun, add $20 for shipping plus $25 for the transfer. If the local store can match the total before tax I will go ahead and buy from them. If they can't touch it then I will use one of two stores for transfers becuase the rest want an exorbitant amount($35+) to do one.

W

 

[Texian Pistolero]

Haven't read all posts. I want repeat something I've exploded about before, which is that Bass Pro doesn't sell hunting rifles in .308.

This is OBVIOUSLY some home office legal mental midgit deciding that .308 is an evil tactical caliber.

I actually went to the gun counter and requested a Remington bolt in .308.
The guy tried a patronizing attitude, pretending that "real hunters" know that .308 is a poor choice for deer hunting(!).

There was a line waiting, and I had only to quote a few ballistics facts to shut that down. He was clueless, and wilted before my obviously superior knowlege.

He abruptly just walked off, (despite a waiting line.)

I am rarely confrontational, but I've learned to attack the PC gun attitude head on. I'm over fifty and increasingly crotchety.

 

[Tinker]

I don't buy a lot of "gun stuff", but when I do, the attitude of the clerk often determines if he gets my "fun" money. That matters more than a few bucks I might save. I can't count how many times I've walked into pawn shops, big chains, small gun stores or sporting goods dealers and never even got a "Hello, can I help you?" or a hello nod and a "I'll be with you in just a minute."

I buy almost all my ammo from one small local pawn shop even though I can buy it cheaper from Wallyworld. The sole reason is his attitude. If he's not tied up, he'll just shoot the breeze with you and talk about some wierd, neat old gun he just aquired or whatever. A seller's surly attitude doesn't cut it with me.

 

[Vic303]

Texian, you should be relieved then, that BassPro is no longer the only 'big outdoors' store in the metroplex! Just head on over to the new Cabelas, and buy .308's to your heart's content!

 

[jefnvk]

One other thing I thought about. Sometimes, I think people forget that the big chains were once the little stores that did something right.

We have one mom and pops type shop that isn't quite recoginazible as one. Started out as a guy selling guns and ammo in his garage, and now is nearing a Bass Pro Size shop. When Cabelas moved in, supposedly they tried to buy them out because they knew they would hurt business from the Northern Michigan residents.

They have nearly as good as selection as Cabelas (I'd rather buy guns there, because they are simply available to look at without a sales person). But, they continue to get bigger, They have opened a second large store. How long before they take off even more and become a big chain?

And even being a mom and pops type shop, they certainly aren't hurting the littler mom and pops shops any less than Wal-Mart is (probably more, as tehy carry guns Wal-Mart doesn't even know exist)

 

[SteveS]

They have nearly as good as selection as Cabelas (I'd rather buy guns there, because they are simply available to look at without a sales person). But, they continue to get bigger, They have opened a second large store. How long before they take off even more and become a big chain?

What store are you talking about? Jays?

 

[GEM]

One day, I'm going to do an experiment. I will call up a series of mom and pop stores for a specific gun and then call up mom and pop books stores looking for a specific book.

Then we will rate our conversations for friendliness and do some statistic. I swear that 80% of the time, I get Commando Bob talkiing in gruffffff tones when I call with a simple question. What happened to GEM's Gun Store, may I help you?

I had an hilarious time asking an Austin store about an SW Sc 1911 - never heard of it but since it is an exotic frame probably about $1500. $740 down the road at Sportsman's Warehouse and the dude was polite on the phone.

 

[nico]

Other than the pistol range/store I go to, the last time I walked into a "mom and pop" gun shop, Mom didn't know what a Springfield Pistol was

 

[Beren]

I order most of my stuff online. Usually, it's a more efficient use of my time and the prices are great. Sometimes I'll get the urge to fondle strange guns, and there are a couple of shops I visit. One is a store which focuses on milsurp. Nice collection of military-style firearms, but no AR's. He does carry ammo, however, and I just bought 500 rounds off of him last week. It was more convienent to buy there than to wait a few days for shipping had I ordered online.

There's another area shop which gets all my FFL transfer business. They were the only shop in my area which didn't bristle or try to pummel me when I asked about out-of-state transfers. The owners are great people, enjoy talking with their customers but aren't pushy about anything. They're also in my home town, so driving the 20-30 minutes is more fun than a bother. I order something, UPS or Fedex tracking numbers let me know when it's there (saves the owner from 'Is it there yet?' phone calls!), I drive down and pick it up. No fuss, no hassle.

One shop initially refused to even talk about a transfer when the owner found out I was buying AR stripped lower receivers. He came back after a few minutes and said he could do it for $35 each. The other shop asked a flat $25 so long as they were all transferred as rifles. Transferring one as a pistol would be extra. I've since found other shops who charge less, but saving $10 isn't really worth changing when I have positive experiences with the current shop.

My last four firearm purchases were out-of-state transfers. The other purchases were from 'small' gunshops, and one was a Dunham's purchase when they had a sale on K31's.

 

[ken B]

there are two full scale gunshops, one having a distinct pawn side and gun side, in my area, with the others being full fledged pawns with guns as part of the business.

I used to do business with the one alot, and I'm not saying I was a 'gun a week' customer, but I generally did business with them because 1) a dear friend worked in there for years, 2) usually made me killer deals on used guns, and 3) could get what i want even if a tad higher.

I guess economics came through. Started getting less deals on used guns, new guns started matching really close to MSRP retail, etc. Even got to the point where " why do you want one of those 'brands', when we have this 'other brand' in stock"
got tired of arguing, u know? I understand everyone needs to make money, but I can't see %%% markup on used guns that it turned out to be.

so i just hit all the shops. There is a relativly new pawn in town that does some really good deals. Won't wheel and deal, but his prices are generally decent to start with after doing research.

There is another pawn across town that has some sweet Smiths, I want..but his markup is way over any reference I can find should put them. The Smith and Wesson Collectors Guide states one gun in excellent should be in the $450 range, his in Fair is priced at $550 + tx.

another type of thing. A Kimber .22 conversion for the 1911 they sell, Midway has it for $279 brand new. I've seen a really USED one at that last pwn I talked about, for $325 + tax. I'm finishing my masters, with a house, wife, 3 yr old....that kind of price difference adds up after a few slides or guns.

None will do transfers from individual to their FFL "against the law" One doesn't even recognize my C&R as a 'real FFL', even though I use it in the way it's designed Thank god for my local gunsmith that does transfers for a decent price, from individuals, he's a great guy and he sells on consignment so i buy from him pretty regular.

for the record...i've never bought a gun at the WallyWorld or whatnot. So i'm not sure i'm going the right route by frequenting pawn shops or ordering new from my gunsmith.

 

[1911 guy]

My preference

is mom and pop shops. I won't get openly hostile if you disagree, but I'd like to put a plug in for a local shop I like. It's called "Stockers", in Champion, Ohio. Good selection of rifles and shotguns, great handgun choices and two employees. I assume one is the owner. Personable, helpful, and weren't condescending to my wife when we went there to take her CCW class. If you enjoyed the dim smoky atmosphere of guns, ammo and supplies and knee deep B.S. of yesterdays shops, this one is for you. I've got no stake in the shop, just wanted to give a plug where it's due.

 

[SLCDave]

Think you all have problems... There used to be a really great Buckskinning store here in Vegas, Ray's Beaver Bag. Ray decided to retire and now NO ONE carries much in the way of muzzleloading or Black Powder supplies. About all you can get are the big selling items for inline muzzle loaders and such. Sure can't get bulk lead, any size round balls, buckskinning supplies, casting supplies, or non-popular BP guns around here anymore.

Ray still has his business line active, going to an answering machine, and the open/closed sign turned to "closed". I was in Vegas in April, and my brother-in-law and I kept calling and stopping by because BIL needed a couple parts for his old muzzleloader. Nothing there to indicate he was shut down, and never got a call back. BIL had heard about how good the place was, so we kept trying. Talk about a little hole-in-the-wall place...