Rate the AR15 one to five stars

[MTMilitiaman]

You can buy and change the slide and barrel on an M1911 without needing to go through a background check. I have one M1911 that can shoot 22 LR, 45 ACP and 38/45 Clerke just by changing the slide, barrel, recoil spring and magazine.

You can buy and change the barrel cartridge and length on a Thompson/Center Contenders and Encores without the need for a background check.

I can buy and change the barrel on my Savage rifles including length and cartridge without needing to go through another background check.

There are others.

I still do not see the point why BATF should have classified the AR upper as the firearm. Plenty of precedence where the frame, or lower in the case of the AR-15, is the firearm.

It's simple, the serialized part is, by law, the firearm. In a bolt action rifle, this is usually the receiver. The barrel may also have a serial number on it, but this is so owners can tell if it has the original barrel on it. The receiver is the firearm so unless you are getting a new receiver, you don't need to go through another background check to put a new barrel or stock on a bolt action rifle. Same with your TC. The receiver is serialized. It is the firearm. That is why you can get new barrels for it without a background check. If you try to buy a spare receiver, you'll have to do another background check because legally, you're buying a new firearm, not just a new barrel. On the 1911, the frame is serialized. The frame of your 1911 is the firearm according to the ATF. So you can replace barrels and slides without a background check.

So again, with the AR-15, the lower receiver with the trigger group is the serialized part. The lower receiver is the firearm according to the ATF. All complete receivers I believe need to be serialized and have a background check ran by ATF to be possessed legally. The upper receiver with the barrel and bolt carrier group is not serialized and is not considered a firearm. Therefore you can replace barrels, bolt assemblies, or even complete upper receivers without a background check.
If the ATF had declared the upper receiver to be the firearm then it would have to be serialized. At that point you could still modify the upper, but buying a new one would require a background check and it would have to be transferred or shipped to an FFL dealer. This would obviously make it much more difficult to change calibers or barrel lengths because you would have to swap the complete barrel out of an existing upper or go through a separate background check to purchase a complete upper. Swapping barrels in the AR isn't a huge deal, but it is a lot more complicated and time consuming than popping two pins out and unless you have tools and facilities to do it yourself, would require shipping a firearm back and forth to an FFL dealer. Instead, the lower is considered the firearm so if we want to switch from 5.56 to 6.8 SPC, all we have to do is order a 6.8 SPC upper, have it shipped directly to our doorstep with no background check or FFL dealer, and ta-da, we have a 6.8 SPC just buy popping two takedown pins and throwing a new upper on our AR. This wouldn't be possible if the upper receiver was considered the firearm.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

It's simple, the serialized part is, by law, the firearm. In a bolt action rifle, this is usually the receiver. The barrel may also have a serial number on it, but this is so owners can tell if it has the original barrel on it. The receiver is the firearm so unless you are getting a new receiver, you don't need to go through another background check to put a new barrel or stock on a bolt action rifle. Same with your TC. The receiver is serialized. It is the firearm. That is why you can get new barrels for it without a background check. If you try to buy a spare receiver, you'll have to do another background check because legally, you're buying a new firearm, not just a new barrel. On the 1911, the frame is serialized. The frame of your 1911 is the firearm according to the ATF. So you can replace barrels and slides without a background check.

So again, with the AR-15, the lower receiver with the trigger group is the serialized part. The lower receiver is the firearm according to the ATF. All complete receivers I believe need to be serialized and have a background check ran by ATF to be possessed legally. The upper receiver with the barrel and bolt carrier group is not serialized and is not considered a firearm. Therefore you can replace barrels, bolt assemblies, or even complete upper receivers without a background check.
If the ATF had declared the upper receiver to be the firearm then it would have to be serialized. At that point you could still modify the upper, but buying a new one would require a background check and it would have to be transferred or shipped to an FFL dealer. This would obviously make it much more difficult to change calibers or barrel lengths because you would have to swap the complete barrel out of an existing upper or go through a separate background check to purchase a complete upper. Swapping barrels in the AR isn't a huge deal, but it is a lot more complicated and time consuming than popping two pins out and unless you have tools and facilities to do it yourself, would require shipping a firearm back and forth to an FFL dealer. Instead, the lower is considered the firearm so if we want to switch from 5.56 to 6.8 SPC, all we have to do is order a 6.8 SPC upper, have it shipped directly to our doorstep with no background check or FFL dealer, and ta-da, we have a 6.8 SPC just buy popping two takedown pins and throwing a new upper on our AR. This wouldn't be possible if the upper receiver was considered the firearm.

I do not understand this post.

I think that everybody knows already that the lower is the "firearm".

Are you saying that you would prefer the upper receiver to be the "firearm"?
Are you saying that you think everyone should get a background check before they change calibers/uppers/etc?

Being able to swap uppers at will is a serious bonus to the platform.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I do not understand this post.

I think that everybody knows already that the lower is the "firearm".

Are you saying that you would prefer the upper receiver to be the "firearm"?
Are you saying that you think everyone should get a background check before they change calibers/uppers/etc?

Being able to swap uppers at will is a serious bonus to the platform.

Not everybody knows the lower is considered the firearm, or at least not everyone appreciates the significance of this. Another forum member, cfullgraf, seemed to be having some confusion over the relevance of the lower being the serialized part and wanted to know why it was important when he could change barrels and such for his 1911 without a background check. I was trying to explain the law to him and its significance pertaining to the AR as compared to other systems he owned.

I, on the other hand, fully recognize how advantageous it is to the platform for the lower to be considered the firearm. An entire multi-million dollar industry has formed around this rifle specifically because of the ease with which the user to swap uppers. Much of the rifle's utility stems from its modularity. It would literally be a different rifle and different market if the upper was considered the firearm.

My handle is MTMilitiaman. Do you really think I am in favor of background checks in general or government interference in the peaceful exercise of natural rights at all?

 

[rskent]

5, 4, 3, respectively.

Wow, tough crowd man.

 

[someguy2800]

Are there really that many people that have 1 lower and 5 uppers to put on it? How often do you guys swap around uppers?

 

[cfullgraf]

Another forum member, cfullgraf, seemed to be having some confusion over the relevance of the lower being the serialized part and wanted to know why it was important when he could change barrels and such for his 1911 without a background check. I was trying to explain the law to him and its significance pertaining to the AR as compared to other systems he owned.

I, on the other hand, fully recognize how advantageous it is to the platform for the lower to be considered the firearm.

I have no confusion on what the government consides the "firearm". They elected to assign the part with the fire control system for the AR-15 just as they have done with many other platforms. I was merely pointing out that the government set their own precedences for assigning the serial numbered part that is the "firearm" on the AR platform.

 

[MistWolf]

If the upper was the serialized firearm part, I'd have just as many uppers as I do now because the cost of uppers would be the same as it is now. Shooters would still simply pop the two pins and swap uppers and lowers around like they do now

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

My handle is MTMilitiaman. Do you really think I am in favor of background checks in general or government interference in the peaceful exercise of natural rights at all?

Sounds like you are my kind of people.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Llama Bob]

Wow, tough crowd man.

I'd say it's a generous crowd. I'd give the M1 a 4, the AK a 1, and the M700 a 2.

 

[LoonWulf]

Are there really that many people that have 1 lower and 5 uppers to put on it? How often do you guys swap around uppers?

Untill i decided i didnt like the .223 in the ar, and the 300aac in general, i had....uh....3 .223 uppers, 2 300aac uppers, two Grendels, and a .458, at the same time. Ive only got one lower.
Im down to the Grendel and .458 now.
I keep thinking i should build the .458 a new lower, as ive shaved weight on mine to get the grendel down to 7Lbs. The .458 isnt bad to shoot at that weight but I was thinking an A2 stock would be nice.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

5 stars. Ergonomically it's about perfect (though I prefer the forward charging handle on the SCAR.) Reliability is about as good as it can get. It's easy shooting and reasonably simple to train on. Configurable for about anything you want to do to it.

Note that I would have felt very differently after I got out of the army in the 90's. Modern ammunition, lubricants, AR parts that have been perfected with time, better understanding of the platform and its quirks, and fairly simple design changes have made this into a different beast. A friend and I got to spend a week with Tiger McKee last year and the rifle he brought to the carbine portion of our training had something like 29,000 rounds through it without a malfunction, and with very little cleaning (you wouldn't believe me if I told you how little). It didn't even have a forward assist, nor does he recommend them. When I was in the Army we needed the forward assist, often at the range, but mostly when firing blanks.

If your experience with the platform is decades-old, you might want to reconsider. Even my buddy's cheap DPMS that he'd never fired went 1,200 rounds without an issue and without cleaning. That's better than the brand new FN M16A2s I used in 1991 could do.

Things are different now.

 

[entropy]

Wow, tough crowd man.

I've shot, owned and/or smithed many AK's and 700's. And the M1 is still a heavy rifle, despite me agreeing with it being a 5.

 

[fpgt72]

3 stars....it has lasted the test of time, brought new technology to "military" guns....wood is a thing of the past along with the 30 cal cartridges.

Past this it brings nothing new....

Henry, 5 stars, reliable self contained cartridge gun,
Mauser 98 5 stars, military bolt gun perfected, nothing new to it really but all the little things came together to make this THE bolt rifle for over a century.

AR....it is a very good design, and one that will go down in history, and could very well be going strong at the century mark....however other AR's are now "improving" on the gas system....is that still an AR?

What makes an AR an AR.....Gas piston or direct....is one not an AR as the original did not use one....to take that farther screwing around with ports....is a CAR15 style...is an AR "pistol" an AR?

The only real problem with the AR platform are the users....fantastic system, but it is not the end all and be all system. It is just one tool in the tool box.

 

[someguy2800]

If you think about how the direct impingement system works with the gas tube fitting into the gas key on the bolt carrier, the standard AR design really is a piston operated gun, except in this case the piston is fixed and its the cylinder that moves. I think the only thing you can say bad about that gas system is how it pukes into the action.

 

[fpgt72]

Not saying one is bad or good just they are different....so is different from "original" still an AR?

thats all.

 

[Got_Lead?]

Very accurate, relatively easy to clean, light weight, ergonomic, multiple calibers. And there's no better Barbie doll of a rifle to accessorize. Everyone is trying to make a better combat rifle, Tavor (and the IDF hates them so I am told). You just cant beat the AR.

 

[rskent]

And the M1 is still a heavy rifle,

For me, just one of the reasons it is such a sweet shooter.

 

[someguy2800]

Oh, I almost forgot, though easily improved with a free trigger job, the stock mil spec trigger that was in most of the AR's that I have shot were abominations to the word trigger. Probably fine for the intended purpose I guess but I have used staplers that would put them to shame.

 

[Pete D.]

Five stars. Very accurate. Buldable......how many options are there for building your own? About a bazillion.
Pete

 

[rdmercer]

I can only rate the old school AR15 with solid or carry handle conventional iron sights and that would be a 3. I just can't warm up to optics or RDs. Along with Garands and M1As, the original AR platform with the aperture sight is the best iron sight ever designed. Even aging eyes can focus on a peep sighted target.

 

[chicharrones]

Even aging eyes can focus on a peep sighted target.

Mine can't anymore. Now if the front post was at the muzzle of a 30" barrel, maybe so.

 

[rskent]

I'd say it's a generous crowd. I'd give the M1 a 4, the AK a 1, and the M700 a 2.

Is there a rifle that you would give 5 stars?

 

[Llama Bob]

Is there a rifle that you would give 5 stars?

Sure - I said above I'd give the AR15 5 stars. Also at this point the AR10 or whatever you want to call the big pattern AR. Outside of autos, I'd also give the Winchester 1885, Win 1886/m71, Win 1892, Win M70, Mauser M98 (3 position safety), and Ruger 10/22 5 stars. Probably others given time to think about it some more.

 

[DeepSouth]

If anyone cares, as of right now the average is 4.04 stars.

That's lower than I expected, but still overrated imo.

 

[Pilot]

My Colt 6920 is ergonomic, accepts an optic easily is very accurate, and has been 100% reliable. 5