RBCD Platinum Ammo??

[The Rabbi]

I stopped by one of my favorite gun shops/hangouts today, Reloaders Bench in Mt Juliet. I was looking for some PP ammo in 9mm and they always have interesting stuff. I picked up some Win Silvertips and when I went to pay for it the clerk tried selling me on this ammo. Their web site is www.rbcd.net. They claim incredibly fast speed with wild penetration and expansion.
I was struck by the fact that 1) I had never heard of them, and in PP ammo that isnt good. And 2) The bullets were awfully small (60 gr. 9mm) such that I doubted they would function well in my HK P7. And, best, 3) They cost about 2-3 times what normal PP ammo costs. So a box of 50 was something like $80.
Now all of this would be OK if it worked as advertised and really was a death-ray. But I am leary of anything "new and wonderful" when it comes to my life (or my wife's--which is actually what this is for. Her gun). So anyone have comments or experience? Thanks.

 

[landon74]

I've seen their website, and they show you all kinds of crazy numbers, it makes me think of those 'Extreme Shock' ads....
I haven't seen any third party reviews of that ammo, and I'm not about to dish out that kind of bread to test it out myself, so I'll stick to the stuff with a proven track record....

 

[Third_Rail]

http://www.rbcd.net/gelatin photos.html


I haven't seen these before, just the meat tests. Now I think they might have something.

 

[The Rabbi]

I haven't seen any third party reviews of that ammo, and I'm not about to dish out that kind of bread to test it out myself, so I'll stick to the stuff with a proven track recor

You hit the nail on the head. I dont want to be somebody's guinea pig and I dont want to pay through the nose for the privelage. It would take me about 100-150 rounds to feel comfortable carrying it and the cost to do that is prohibitive. I can buy Winchester Rangers for a lot less and I trust them a lot more. And if something goes wrong I know where to send my lawyer.

 

[Correia]

Jeff OTMG (a longtime member here) is a dealer for RBCD.

 

[444]

This subject has been covered more than once on this board. A search should give you some reading material.

 

[g56]

I've seen an independent review, RBCD is all smoke and mirrors.

 

[Third_Rail]

Link?

 

[Preacherman]

As usual, ask yourself: how many agencies and/or outfits whose lives depend on the performance of their weapons are using this stuff? Never mind claims that certain "secret" agencies are using it - what can be verified, nailed down, and proven beyond doubt? If there are no such agencies, or very few, there is a reason...

 

[Glock19Fan]

Here is the only test that I know of independently done with RBCD ammo.

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9mm/gel9.htm

It performs as advirtised, but IMO if you want low penitration, go with Glaser. Its been used in many shootings with great results.

However, I still recommend and prefer deeper penitrating ammo, one that gives at least 12 inches of penitration in gelatin.

 

[RyanM]

Basically, all RBCD ammo is is very lightweight lead slug on top of a plastic ball, smushed inside a copper jacket. It performs as a fragmenting, lightweight, low-penetration softpoint.

If all you want out of a bullet is shallow penetration and large temporary cavitation (which is pretty much identical to simple blunt trauma in terms of inflicting harm to living tissue), you'll be more than happy with RBCD.

If you want a big, deep hole, on the other hand, my recommendation would be either Gold Dot or Golden Saber, in most calibers.

 

[BluesBear]

If you do a search on "RBCD" you'll find a lot of discussion about it.

It's one of those subjects that always causes a lot of controversy.

There are those who think it's the greatest thing since sex, the wheel and sliced bread and there are those who absolutely despise it with all of their being.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who will admit they carry it but it seems that they sell a goodly amount of it.

The only thing you'll get everyone to agree on is that it's way over priced.

 

[orionengnr]

I have seen it at our local (DFW) gun shows

Watched the video, and it looked good. However, as a P-7 owner myself I have used Glaser and Magsafe, and the lighter loads (46 gr IIRC) would not cycle the P-7's action, so I'm leery of light loads.. The 64 gr Magsafe works well, but I can't afford to send 50-100 rounds of it downrange to make sure, so my M-13 has a mag full of Cor-Bon PowRBall 100 gr. Both it and the 115 +P work very well.

 

[Jeff OTMG]

orionengr, RBCD is not loaded to pressures exceeding SAAMI standard pressure, so the cycling reliability is much better than the MafSafe and Glaser type loads. By maintaining max standard pressure for a longer time full slide momentum is realized. Compensated barrels have given us some problems, but not a regular barrel. You can feel the slide velocity is there.

Corriea has fired this ammo and seen it in action first hand during a live fire demo I did in SLC last year, including seeing the .40 S&W blow through 10 ga sheet steel yet still able to blow up clay blocks.

For more info on RBCD here are some links for anyone interested to read by people who have actually fired the ammo.

Articles done on the Blackwater Shootout over the years in Armed Forces Journal International. Each year the articles get better:
(In the 2001 article you must use the ‘continue’ at the bottom of each page. The page numbers at the top are NOT correct.)
2001: http://www.afji.com/AFJI/Mags/2001/August/MeteorRound.htm
2002: http://www.afji.com/AFJI/Mags/2002/August/shootout.html
2003: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/2003/
2004: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/cmark1.html
2004: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/analysis1.html

These links have downloadable videos, also known as watch the meat explode:
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/2003/videos.html
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/videos.html

Company web site:
http://www.rbcd.net

There is a show on The History Channel called Modern Marvels that aired an episode called ‘Bullets’. The show had a segment on RBCD ammo and the episode is available on DVD from the History Channel.
http://store.aetv.com/html/product/...eCategoryId=&location=&parentcatid=&subcatid=

RBCD ammo in the real world:

Private contractor (former SEAL) using RBCD in Iraq
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2426405.php

The Outdoor Wire, sports industry daily newsletter (March 10, 2004):
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/towIssue.php?day=10&month=3&year=2004

World record sniper shot by Canadian sniper in support of the U.S. 101st Airborne during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shah-i-Kot Valley (March 2002):
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1026271952413_269

Special ammunition for Israel:
http://www.gordonthomas.ie/113.html
a story of the Israelis using it (about one third the way down the page under 12 January, 2003, fourth paragraph)
http://www.scn.org/womeninblack/info.htm
also here (under The story of Osama Al Senwar, second paragraph)
http://www.palestine-forum.org/letters/mar12-02/mar12-02en.htm

Independent test against other 9mm ammo in an attempt to determine which is best:
(RBCD is the second on the list and includes a photo of the dispersion)
(be sure to click on ‘9mm Chronograph Tests’ at the bottom and view the spreadsheet)
http://www.geocities.com/goldenloki2/9mm/gel9.html

Another independent test. Only comment here is that NOBODY else makes a bullet like ours.
http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/29-1643.asp

We had a shooting last year as the Claim Jumper restaurant in Corona, Ca. It was done by a retired LAPD officer near closing time waiting for a to go order. The ammo was the standard .40 S&W from a Glock 23 carried in a fanny pack. This is on the RBCD website and the letter excerpt is here:

.....I had an occasion to use your ammo in .40 cal., fired from a Glock Model 23, from approximately 12 feet. The reaction from the hit on the robbery suspect was something I have never seen or experienced in 29 years of law enforcement. The suspect was "slammed" down, landing about 6 feet outside the front door of the restaurant which he had just robbed. He was unable to get a shot off at me, due to the tremendous impact and reaction to the .40 caliber round that struck him (of course shot placement helped). The local PD...was very impressed with the performance of the ammunition as well. Needless to say, I am a convert to using RBCD Performance Plus ammunition in all my guns and magazines. Hopefully others will not need a personal experience like mine to switch to RBCD ammo.
Michael, Retired PD

 

[BluesBear]

I wish the Blackwater videos were downloadable.
Sadly however, they are not.

 

[Foreverunstopable]

I was Battalion Recon in the Marines. The ammo was available and is extremly lethal on soft targets and light armor up to and in excess of a mile with the right rifle. Very low recoil and almost no muzzle flash. APLP Medium Armor to 800 yards. same recoil and muzzle flash characteristics as the SPLP

The way these rounds work is the transfer of kenitic energy into heat upon impact. If it hits a ceramic plate at 3200fps it will shatter the plate and penetrate where the body tissue's heat transfer releases the stored cintrifical force causing lethal dammage.

Ive never used the ammo, Force Recon guys get the good stuff but there are two types, Blended Metal Technology (BMT)
LE-H SPLP (Special Purpose Limited Penetration) BMT rounds and
APLP (Armor Piercing Limited Penetration) BMT

Some good info.

http://www.defensereview.com/water/...om/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=577

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=127865

Graphic

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=875[url]

 

[Soybomb]

it will shatter the plate and penetrate where the body tissue's heat transfer releases the stored cintrifical force causing lethal dammage.

What in the world are you talking about? Remember, some of us are relatively familiar with both physics and spelling.

Anyway personally I'm not convinced that a light fast round with shallow penetration is the way to go so I wouldn't use them.

 

[Lucky]

Did anyone else see the last thread on this, which linked to another board which had conclusive evidence that 'blended metal' was a complete fraud? It was many pages long.

 

[LightningJoe]

We pretty much know what JHPs do. We don't have a lot of good data on RBDC. Both will probably achieve exactly the same results in personal combat against criminals (most of the time), but so will blanks (some of the time). I'm amused by the account of the guy who got "slammed" onto the ground by a .40 cal. He was actually slammed onto the ground by his own psychology, of course.