RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Problems

[KentM]

Trying to swage the pockets of some military 5.56 casings - some LC, FC and asstd mixed.

My Ballistic Tools Swage Gauge fits easily after swaging, but the primers won't sit until I hand chamfer the hole, no matter how much I adjust the swager. My Lee press primer works fine with civilian .223 casings.

It appears the swager head is widening the hole enough for the swage gauge, but it isn't entering the hole fully enough to create a chamfered edge?

I adjusted the swager according to instructions, then began lowering the die a quarter turn at a time, untilI noticed the press handle was no longer bottoming out. Obviously making contact.

So then I began raising the internal swager rod, figuring it was keeping the swage head from fully entering. Back and forth with these adjustments to no avail. If I have to chamfer each casing anyway, then why do I need the swager? Any suggestions, preferably not involving buying a different swager?

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have the RCBS swagger dies. And they work good for me. What i do when the ram is all the way up. Is give it a bump. Then after i bring it down. And bump the case free. I rotate it and give it another swage.

 

[Dale Alan]

I went through what you are experiencing for a short period of time ,I abandoned it and started chamfering . Problem solved . Not sure what I was missing but so many needed chamfering it was not worth swaging.

 

[GW Staar]

Before I graduated to a bench swager, I successfully used one. I learned that one needs to adjust it so that it goes in to the hilt....all the way....because the hilt intersection between the button and the larger base cylinder is filleted. The fillet rounds the edge of the case and allows easy seating of primers only if that fillet is pressed into the case head......flush to the "hilt".

Even a Dillon or RCBS bench swager needs the edge of the case rounded to make for easy seating. Chamfering does both at once, but there are those who have aversion to removing metal in the case head to accomplish it.

 

[edwardware]

Several points:
- You will have no success swaging assorted brass. Iso heastamp only.
- I've never adjusted my swage die to contact the ram. . . I suggest backing it off and see how you do with cam-over at the limit of ram travel.
- The LC brass you have is about the best there is, because the pockets are tight. Swage enough to press a chamfer into the mouth of the pocket, but not enough to loosen the pocket any more than necessary to seat. When it's working, it takes a fairly hard bump to unseat the brass from the swage button.
- Careful on alignment, the rods are very hard, and very brittle. Hit one cockeyed and you'll snap it off.

 

[peels]

So then I began raising the internal swager rod, figuring it was keeping the swage head from fully entering. Back and forth with these adjustments to no avail. If I have to chamfer each casing anyway, then why do I need the swager? Any suggestions, preferably not involving buying a different swager?

You shouldn't have to adjust the rod once you set it up initially. Line up the notch on the rod with the bottom of the die and lock it down with the top nut. Now adjust the die down until the desired swage is formed.

It does take some force to bottom out the forming die (the part the goes into the primer pocket) with the rod pushing down on the other side of the web.

The best way to gauge how deep the forming die need to go into the primer pocket is to take a factory brass that does not have a primer crimp and set it on the forming die. Make sure it bottoms out on it without any resistance. Now look at the brass from the side and note how deep it is sitting on the forming die. When swaging, that is how deep the brass must go to get a proper swaging.

That said, there will be some brass that have a pesky crimp that will leave somewhat of a lip around the primer pocket even after swaging. Those are the ones that tend to hang up primer insertion. If you jiggle the brass a little while keeping very slight pressure on the primer against the brass, it should go right in. Yeah, its annoying, but comes with the territory of using crimped brass...Or switch to chamfering as other have suggested.

 

[GW Staar]

If you back it off you won't be rounding (chamfering as you said) anything......

Swage enough to press a chamfer into the mouth of the pocket, but not enough to loosen the pocket any more than necessary to seat.

Also you won't be loosening the pocket with this tool....it bottoms in the pocket long before it loosens a pocket. Look at the picture....

See the fillet at the bottom of the button? That fillet has to be pressed into the mouth of the pocket enough to round it.....Only then will you have any chance of priming LC brass .....easy. Back it off? Not if you want it to work.

The tool works, but it takes more effort and time than the green or blue bench swagers. Also look at Lee's little APP with the swaging parts. Even faster!...Because now you have a case feeder in the process.....and it works too! Pretty much made everything else, except the Dillon 1050 built-in system, slow and obsolete.

 

[KentM]

Peels says,

The best way to gauge how deep the forming die need to go into the primer pocket is to take a factory brass that does not have a primer crimp and set it on the forming die. Make sure it bottoms out on it without any resistance. Now look at the brass from the side and note how deep it is sitting on the forming die. When swaging, that is how deep the brass must go to get a proper swaging.

Good idea - obvious now that my swage head isn't going in far enough, regardless how hard I push.
So... I looked at the leverage and it seems I have less leverage at the bottom of the handle stroke (my Lee press doesn't over cam). So I lowered the die WAY down so it now bottoms out with the handle way short of the bottom. This extra leverage seems to give me a little more depth, with the added benefit that it is easier to insert the casing into the die due to being further down below the turret.

So... problem not completely solved, but I get a much better percentage of casings not requiring additional chamfering. I'm also going to call RCBS and see if a new swage head might help. 0.0001" difference in the machining might be the answer.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Good to hear your making some progress. Are you doing them in a Lee turret press? If you are the turret play (the slight lift). May be giving you some issues. I do mine on a Lyman brass smith turret press. The turret on it don't flex though. It bolts on. And there is a part that also stabilizes it on the the back of the press.

 

[jmorris]

I haven’t used all of the RCBS swagers but die/shell holder & cup one on the left works better in some presses than others.

 

[KentM]

Yeah, I think there must be a lot of differences between presses both in the amount of force one can reasonably apply, and in the amount of play. Probably even in the amount of flexing in how the press is mounted to the bench.