Real Americans: Meet the Enemy We Are Going to War With

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http://www.sierratimes.com/03/03/09/arpubcsm030903.htm

Real Americans: Meet the Enemy We Are Going to War With
Christian Science Monitor - a must read
Published 03. 9. 03 at 22:01 Sierra Time

BAGHDAD, Iraq - With a gun culture that closely resembles that of the United States, Iraq is one of the most heavily armed societies in the world. Its tradition of self-reliance and hard desert and mountain living puts it on a gun-per-person level rivaling other clan systems in Yemen or Somalia.
As U.S. military strategists look ahead to a possible war in Iraq - and a postwar period of working with the Iraqi people to establish more representative rule - firearms loom large. What Iraqis do with those weapons if the U.S. launches an invasion will determine success or failure for Washington. Most war plans, including a United Nations postwar contingency plan leaked in New York last week, assume a swift fall of the regime, and little Iraqi resistance.

But even as Iraq Sunday continued destroying its Al Samoud 2 missiles - bringing the total to 46, more than one-third of Iraq's total Al Samoud force - Iraqis on the home front are stockpiling bullets, dusting off corroded old guns, and receiving freshly minted assault rifles from the ruling Baath Party.

"We tell the Americans: We are prepared for them," says Abdulamir Nasir al Abbudi, a dapper, older Iraqi in a jacket and tie with a white scarf. "My grandfather has a gun from 1895, and I'm going to use it to kill American soldiers. I'm keeping this gun in my hand. I also have a pistol and a Russian Kalashnikov - all Iraqis have these."

Iraqis warn that they are far from convinced that U.S. troops will be seen as liberators, and say instead that they will resist any American occupation.

Sand-bagged positions have been popping up in downtown neighborhoods, and Western witnesses have seen trenches filled with oil on the northern edge of the city that could be set alight to block visibility and confuse oncoming forces.

Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein dismissed the significance of giving up the Al Samoud missile (the name means "steadfastness") when he spoke to senior commanders late last week, and made clear that Iraq is not wanting for arms.

"You are the Samoud missiles," Mr. Hussein said, pointing at the officers. "This is the spirit of the Iraqis, their determination to defend their country."

On Thursday, Hussein praised the "determination" of Iraqis to defend themselves, "even if the fighting was confined to one with rifle and hand grenade," according to the Iraqi New Agency.

Just days before, infantry battalion and regiment commanders told Hussein that two months of ammunition had been stored, that drills for "defensive battle and urban combat [had been] executed," and that soldiers were dug in to minimize casualties from air bombardment.

One officer reportedly vowed to fight with stones if ammo ran out. Hussein reassured him that "arms are plenty."

Although France, Russia, and Germany are redoubling diplomatic efforts to stop the U.S. and Britain from invading, and Friday's report card from U.N. weapons chiefs Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei might be described as a passing grade, few here think war can be averted.

Civilian U.N. workers began pulling out of the demilitarized zone between Kuwait and Iraq, just two days after U.S. Marines in civilian clothes were found cutting 25-yard gaps in the border fence that could accommodate armored columns invading Iraq.

The sense of impending conflict means business is picking up at the capital's 43 gun shops, even though they are only licensed to sell hunting guns or pistols. Customers are stockpiling bullets or shotgun cartridges, says Wiham Ghazi of the "Free Bird" gun shop, whose 12-gauge shotguns and .22 caliber rifles hang from gun racks on the wall of his shop, emanating a faint scent of gun oil.

"It's our culture that people keep guns in their houses - it's inherited from our grandfathers," says Mr. Ghazi, sorting through an array of pistol bullets. Among the ammunition selection is a 12.7mm bullet for a heavy machine gun, with the red-painted tip of a tracer that burns bright as it flies.

"People are buying these kinds of guns just to protect themselves, in case of conflict," Ghazi says, adding that one customer Saturday morning came in looking for bullets for his father's .45 caliber pistol, which had been "put aside for years."

To explain their bond with weapons, Iraqis are fond of the modernized version of one traditional saying: "Give everything to your friend, except your car, your wife, and your gun."

Shotguns here go for just $100; Iraqi-made "Tariq" 7.65 mm pistols cost $200. AK-47 assault rifles, the same gun being offered to Baath Party members, sell for $250.

Iraqi concerns are two-fold: They are worried about the fallout from an American invasion; and they worry that civil unrest could erupt, as it did in 1991.

The result of the latter fear is that urban areas since then have been armed as never before.

"No one would come close to a house at night, because everyone has guns," says a young educated Iraqi, who asked not to be named. "I tell people - and all the neighbors know it - that anyone who crosses this door will be shot."

While it may appear ironic to U.S. planners that the regime is further arming potentially rebellious party cadres and tribal groups, this Iraqi says that his people will do anything to avoid a repeat of 1991.

"We learned that lesson of 1991 - it was something more than awful," says the unaccompanied Iraqi, speaking in English. "People will try to stop that kind of chaos, because once [gunmen] finish with this [person], and move on to the next, they may touch my family."
 
1. The CSM is anti gun if IIRC.
2. What the heck WAS the point of the arti? The Iraqis are going to rise up a shoot every USGI in sight, on sight...or, they all want an insurance policy against each other when the #HTF...... or they are taking to heart that SH has a gang of RGs dressed up like GI Joe and ready to shoot them to make the US/Brits look like genocidal madmen?

OR is this a backhanded way for the CSM to say, "Look what happen when average citizens have guns."

Probably all of the above. If I was one of these Iraqi "patriots" I'd be careful how many pot shots I took at any US or Brit formation. Seems like a stunningly good way to have a 105 headed back your way in response.

If the Iraqi people were being killed and tortured by Saddam all these years and they had access to guns as this arti would have us believe, why is SH still in power?
The Iragis must not be counted as numbering among any of those humble masses yearning to breath free.
 
Look again at what they call "hunting weapons": 22s and 12ga. They're restricting most Iraqis to short-range weapons. They give out AKs to "Baath party members" but even then, with iron sights your average AK in good hands is questionable at 200 yards.

Betcha anything they restrict good scoped bolt-guns as strictly as the US controls full-autos.
 
We do have to be very careful to avoid any appearance of re-establishing colonial rule. The Saudis and others in the region have been quietly pushing in the back rooms to get a US general installed as ruler. This is an EXTRAORDINARILY bad idea, and there will be hell to pay if we follow the advice of our fair-weather Arab friends. Afghanistan should be our model. If we are seen as supporting a new reform-minded Iraqi government, most of the locals will back us. If we start flying American flags all over and put the military in charge, expect many body bags. Most on this board know what even an old Mauser and Enfield can do.
 
Where to begin?

"We tell the Americans: We are prepared for them," says Abdulamir Nasir al Abbudi, a dapper, older Iraqi in a jacket and tie with a white scarf. "My grandfather has a gun from 1895, and I'm going to use it to kill American soldiers.

That's wonderful, Abdul(a-bull-bull)amir. We love antiques here and are looking forward to liberating your grandfather's Krag or Enfield, assuming it doesn't blow up in your face when you fire it. By the way, American soldiers are very hard to kill. Sleep well.

Civilian U.N. workers began pulling out of the demilitarized zone between Kuwait and Iraq, just two days after U.S. Marines in civilian clothes were found cutting 25-yard gaps in the border fence that could accommodate armored columns invading Iraq.

Uh-oh. Heading right for Abdulamir's Krag. Better call off the tanks.

Iraqi concerns are two-fold: They are worried about the fallout from an American invasion; and they worry that civil unrest could erupt, as it did in 1991. The result of the latter fear is that urban areas since then have been armed as never before.

Civil unrest? And no loyalty checks for gun-buyers? What could go wrong? Good Morning Bagdad!!! It's 3 AM--LET's PARTY!!!
 
It's Iraq. Tell the western journalist what the government tells you to say and you'll still have a family tonight.
 
That was heartwarming....unfortunatly for them we are better at playing nintendo then they are and thats what modern warfare comes down to.
 
or, they all want an insurance policy against each other when the #HTF...... or they are taking to heart that SH has a gang of RGs dressed up like GI Joe and ready to shoot them to make the US/Brits look like genocidal madmen?
I think those guesses are exactly on the money.
 
Nintendo? I hope it is that easy and sanitary. But, more likely it will be like the Newsweek article on Iragi resistance. It can be found on the Newsweek website right now.

A rather sobering analysis. This campaign may not be some walk in the park.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/881770.asp?0cv=KA01
 
moa......do you really believe this war will be anything but a one sided blowout?.......To suggest otherwise is just paranoia, Same stuff they said last time about the "elite republican guard".........and "the battle hardened afghan rebels".........gimme a break.
 
"We tell the Americans: We are prepared for them," says Abdulamir Nasir al Abbudi, a dapper, older Iraqi in a jacket and tie with a white scarf. "My grandfather has a gun from 1895, and I'm going to use it to kill American soldiers.
And he'll soon be able to use that white scarf to surrender -- or perhaps in a futile attempt to stanch his life's blood as it pours out into the sands...

pax

Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country! -- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
 
sonny, I hope you are right. I am not staying awake at night worrying about it. But one should never discount combat in a huge urban area made up of masonry buildings and millions of civilians, whom we are not trying to kill.

This means you may not be able to consistently use your more powerful and stand-off weapons. A stubborn enemy has to be winkled out building by building and room by room. Opportunities for losses due to friendly fire increase.

Urban combat is about the worse type of combat there is, and apparently our troops have been training at it for quite a while in expectation of same. It is probably a good bet our troops are not looking forward to it.
 
Last time I checked a group of 100 odd U.S. Ranger and Delta Force soldiers racked up one hell of a body count in a hostile urban environment on an enemy force equipped with AK's, large machine guns AND RPG-7's.


And seeing as how the Iraqi soldiers have proven how (in)effective they are in combat, we're now supposed to believe that the average Abdul sixpack is going to be more effective at opposing U.S. forces?
 
Moa ....I hear you and if it comes down to urban combat that would be a shame .....but if it does ...and I doubt it will there are no finer fighting men in the world than our team...Go USA!
 
Urban warfare is only a problem if you care to safeguard the lives of the civilians.

Let one minor bloodbath occur, and, I hope, our guys will simple level the block first, then march over it to finish the next.

War sucks, alway has and always will, but, if it can't be avoided, I wish out people to come home well a lot more than I wish the population of Iraq to stay healthy, especially since, from the article mentioned, they control the tools to determine their own destiny.

So, having once been one, here's to our guys!

Yes, I know there are girls, too, but I hope not in the fighting units on the ground.

Besides, I remember my time and friends.
 
The behavior of the Iraqui soldiers in Gulf War I does not exactly square with the portrait this article paints...

I read in another article that some Iraqui soldiers have already tried to surrender to a British team on maneuvers near the border...

Poor guys were half-starved.
 
Hmmm. I didn't like Hussein before, and now I find out Iraqi's can buy select-fire AK's for $250? That frosts me. ;)

All kidding aside, I also find the article a bit hard to believe. This despot has ruled a gun-friendly Iraq all these years? Doesn't smell right.

Regards from TX
 
The only problem is, it's kind of hard for the Iraqis to shoot when their holding up white flags.

I heard an interview with an Iraqi defector and the question about gun ownership was asked. He said the Kurds in the North owned guns, but not regular Iraqis living in the cities.
 
This sounds like every other interview coming out of Iraq. Remember that at each of these press events there is a man from Iraqi Intelligence sitting or standing next to the nice reporter from the west.
Just like Mark D said....."Tell the west what we want them to hear now, and you won't be listening to the screems of your children later"
 
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