REAL percentage of DRT / bang-flops with shot to vitals

[LeonCarr]

It is kinda funny when you watch those hunting shows and the hunter is shooting a .300 Remington Ultramag or equivalent, shoots the deer inside of 200 yards with an alleged textbook shot, and the deer kicks in the afterburners and runs off. Hunter catches up to the deer for the photo op, and he/she is huffing and puffing from having to chase after it .

Placement is the key.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Austinite]

I've killed somewhere around 90 deer - roughly 20% of which were with a .280 Remington and 150 Rem. sp, 40% were with a .257 Weatherby Mag and 115 Partitions (when Federal used to make that load) and the other 40% with .308 and 150 Fusion loads (my current load).

I aim straight through both shoulders. The .280 and .257 probably got 70% DRT with that shot while my .308 probably gets 45% DRT. The .308 drops deer to the shot noticeable less often but they never go too far so I'm happy with the performance.

 

[interlock]

I have voted 70-80 % i think. I shoot mainly roe deer, muntjac and red deer. I use a .243, 7mm08 and .30-06. in my experience if i shoot a roe in the heart and lungs with the 7mm or the 30-06 AND it does not now i am there it falls over DRT. if it has some adrenalin in it and knows i am there it may go a short distance normally under 50 yards. I have found the .243 to give less drt shots. As others have said it is amazing how far a deer can run with no lungs. i have found much bigger reds to be no tougher to kill.

 

[Art Eatman]

Okay, body shots. There was my 9-shot, one-hit buck. Frontal shot at 450 yards, into the lower brisket. He folded up and quit. I guess you could call him my P&S buck: Patient and Stupid. (Maybe I was Optimistic&Stupid; I'd missed him eight times at 550.) I had a side-shot at my 350-yard buck; same deal. He didn't go anywhere at all. Angling upward through the middle heart-lung area. Both of those were '06.

I vaguely recall one cross-body shot with my .243, mostly because of the unholy mess the bullet made of the heart and lungs. DRT.

My father commented that a heart shot (lower heart?) will cause a deer to drop to his knees or even on the ground, and then jump up and run some distance. I saw this on a couple of does in my early years, culling at my Austin place. But, fifty yards at most in the run. I dunno. Maybe this "I shot him in the heart and he ran..." (pick your distance) could be from hitting near the heart or the edge of it and the bullet for whatever reason didn't expand much.

I'm finicky. If I shoot 'em in the neck, I don't have all that blood pouring out when I cut the diaphragm. I hate getting my hands *that* bloody...

, Art

 

[Kurt S.]

Well, I voted for 91-100, but it's not because of any great shooting skill. I attribute this to luck and and being real careful about shots. I never take running shots, don't shoot past 200 yards, and do my best to have a stable position when I shoot. I nearly always go for neck shots; I've gotten one DRT with a "Texas heart shot" and one with an angling left shoulder shot. The first was with a .25-06 and the second was a .45-70.

I wll say I've had my share of clean misses because of buck fever.

I've never had a deer run off. I had an odd occurence where I shot, saw the deer go down, get up like nothing happened and walk off into the brush. Never found it. No blood, no hair, no nothing.

I had one hog do something similar, but I know I hit it. Call me a slob, but I was just not going into mesquite/prickly pear/cholla thicket after a wounded porker at dusk without a good flashlight and dogs.

 

[X-Rap]

I have not documented all my kills but would guess that around 50% is not really that far off excluding bow kills.

 

[Eagle103]

A true heart lung shot just behind the shoulders and they're almost always going to run a little ways. A shot that hits a shoulder or two, especially a little higher, is what results in a DRT. The shock to the CNS is what puts them down immediately. You won't get that with a straight heart/lung shot.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You won't get that with a straight heart/lung shot.

.530 caliber, 225 gr all lead, patched, round ball, over 70 grains of 3Fg, with two dropped where they stood, and two went under fifty yards. All hit lung area at between 25-60 yards, and all with entry and exit wounds. I dressed the deer, and none of the shoulders were hit in any of them.

LD

 

[caribou]

Premium Sauces,
In the Header post, you asked for "Vitals" shot and our opinions...my opinion is that the brain and spine ARE vital. I put "Chest shot" in for your (as I now understand) version of vital, at 100% walk/run/limp.
I'm in Alaska, and our slang is a bit different.

So what is CNS?

Are we not speaking the truth in our opinion and replys when we answer these posts? You seem to question the results.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Caribou...

"CNS" = Central Nervous System.

Can't speak for Sauce but "CNS" (to me) means a hit in the brain or the spine, with "spine" including the neck vertebra. Thus a shot "through the shoulders" that damages the spine is a "CNS" hit.

 

[interlock]

"A true heart lung shot just behind the shoulders and they're almost always going to run a little ways. A shot that hits a shoulder or two, especially a little higher, is what results in a DRT. The shock to the CNS is what puts them down immediately. You won't get that with a straight heart/lung shot."

I know we are all slaves to our experiences, but i just can't buy this. at the weekend i shot 4 big lowland red hinds and 5 fallow does. all were heart and lung not shoulder shots except for one of the fallow which was neck shot. only one animal was not drt, that was a fallow doe that ran 25 yards into the wood leaving a blood trail like a motorway (freeway in your language!) this was hit higher and a bit further back through both lungs.

I was using a 7mm08 with 120 gr spitzers at quite close ranges. 100 - 200 yards.

interlock

 

[Sinixstar]

I personally have seen 4 (including one of my own) by 4 different people.
The caveat is all 4 of us will readily admit it was dumb luck.

Dad had a shot at one that moved it's head in the way of the bullet as he was squeezing the trigger on his .50cal muzzle loader. He couldn't even figure out where he hit it at first, his friend pointed out the red spot above the nose.
I had one that was quartering away and running with a .50cal - barely remember taking the shot, pure reaction. I shot, it tumbled forward as it was running. It's possible it broke it's neck on the fall? Was a good shot though.
Brother had one 25-30 yards with a 12ga slug, got a lucky ricochet inside, blew out a shoulder and lung/heart.
Family friend had one with a bow - again, split second movement on the deer's part - lucky neck shot, made a noise, spurt some blood, fell right there.

I don't think any of us could recreate those if we tried.

 

[wleggart]

I read this thread with interest as our ml season is over and modern gun started Nov. 8. I shot two both DRT. The first 245 gr. sabot and 100 RS pellets at 122 paces. Shot quartering toward me. shot between shoulders at base of neck. She dropped. I did have to whittle a little on her jugular to get things over, Saturday 118 yards small buck same angle .308 150 grain Winchester fail safe DRT. Both ruined no meat, and dropped them in their tracks. We discussed this in camp, and the general agreement is: neck shot high, top of the shoulders on broad side, and same shot I took on quartering toward. We could not come to an agreement on quartering away. I say there is no good quartering away shot. The only deer that we could not locate and had blood were from behind the shoulder shots. I have some thoughts that we will have a minimum group size on the day before gunseason for all members next year. I HATE to loose a deer! My chesapeake will have to learn to be a blood dog!

 

[dust_101]

Not voting, just as I'm confused about the factors in the poll. Heck my last deer was what I thought to be a heart/lung but it also blew out the left shoulder on exit (broadside). That was a .30-06 180gn soft point round nose at 80yds, and that one fell to the left, rolled/flipped over to the right side, twitched for about 10 seconds and was DRT. I'd call it a 'bang-flop' but since the shoulder was knocked with it I guess it wasn't a pure 'heart/lung' shot.

 

[federalfarmer]

One. My first deer.He stood broadside at 20 feet, and my .300 win with TB's worked.

 

[BigBuckMaster]

for bear, elk/moose, and most large african game i do a neck shot, breaking the spine. about 40 or so % of my shots are 'bang-flops'. i use a .300 WM or a .338 LM for large game and a .375 H&H in Africa. i pride myself on being a marksmen (not a spell;er) and when in Africa, what you shoot half the time runs. i have seen brain shot elephants and hippos run for a 1/4 of a mile. in Africa about 25-33% of my shots are bang-flops. i have been there 17 times and hunted the Big Seven 4 times (2 rifle, 1 handgun, 1 crossbow), so i would say in Africa 10-15% of shots are bang-drops.

i have also hunted in S. America 11 times and Europe/Asia 10, and about 40-55% of my shots there were bang-flops. her in the US and the CSA about 55-60% of my shots are banf-flops.

 

[IndianaBoy]

I bang-flopped a button buck this morning. I thought it was a little doe. He was quartered towards me. In the left shoulder, destroyed his heart, took lung tissue out the exit wound. 165 grain hornady sst. DRT.

 

[rhoggman]

I have never shot a deer DRT, but to all the naysayers out there, including the ones who say it never happens on hunting shows must be living in another world.

Like I said, naver happened to me, but I have seen it over and over again.

Couple of weeks ago I shot a button buck w/ .50 cal 295 gr Powerbelt, and he ran about 20yds before he fell, and then he did a little circle of death on the ground. He was not giving up. Later I found out that the pwerbelt basically deystroyed the heart. I would say it still took that little deer 45 sec to die WITH NO HEART. Having seen deer with massive damage done to vital organs and still no DRT I would have to assume it depends on the deer's bodily reaction or nervous system response. This is not going to be the same for all deer.

I hit another deer in the spine with the same .50 cal round, and she ran about 15 yards. Don't ask me how but she did. After skinning her she had to be hung in 2 peices because her upper body was seperating from her hind quarters. She was basically falling in half, but still managed to run a little ways.

Needless to say deer are amazing animals, but I don't doubt anyones personal experience. It happens different in different situations.

I do wonder if a high powered rifle has a more devestating effect on the nervous system, and why? All of the deer I have seen DRT on TV were shot with high powered rifles. In my case the muzzleloader did not have the same effect even though my shots were pretty well placed with the exception of the one that effectively cut the deer in half (she was running).

 

[marriedguy1]

The only bang flops I've ever had were dove. Every pig or deer that I've shot have gone at least 50 yards.

 

[MountainWalk]

Bear- 2 instant kills out of 16 bears-the two that did it, 12 guage one ounce slug, 338 250 grains

elk-9 out of 11 of my personal elk-30-06 220gr, 338 250's and 300's..elk Ive guided to 4 out of 9 35 whelen, 350 rem mag, 30-06,30-30

deer, I have no clue

Most anything hit in the heart runs a bit in my exp..

 

[retrieverman]

I have killed 200+/- deer in my hunting "career", and of those, I have had 4 drop to heart/lung shots. Three of which have been this season with my 6.5x55 handloads.

I have taken NUMEROUS neck shot all of which dropped.

 

[DeerSlayer300WM]

BBM, I am begining to think you are a fraud.

Back to your question; When I went to Africa, the only bang-flop I had was with a Dik-Dik (a 20 antelope) while using a .300 Win Mag. Here in America about 25% of mine are bang flops, when I use a neck/spine shot.

the only black bear I have shot was a bang flop. my bullet broke both shoulders and the spine.

My only moose was a bang flop too... heart shot

 

[caribou]

Remeber folks, your results may vary at home. I chose these for the Bang-Flop factor...."CNS" hits are awsome~LOL!~

Anyone got a quality digital camera, impact resistant and set up for extream Cold weather I can bum? ~LoL!~



There ya go, I took this vid of Dave, this Fall.
The proper bullet placement, down, across a stream bed, 200-250 yards. The white is the Caribou's neck. 7mm to the neckbone.

Dead Right There.


Two outta three B/F's aint bad DRT, the 2nd one is chest shot behind the "armpit" and through the heart, but still ran about 20 yards, and the 3rd on was a "No brainer", as I wiped her slate clean outta her head.DRT.


Not uncommon.

 

[rem1]

shotgun country but had more bang flops with foster slugs than the new high speed winchesters 1900fps kinda like the old ones

 

[moooose102]

IMO, three things are drasticly going to affect this number. #1) is the rifle caliber you are using, #2) is where you hit the animal, and #3) is bullet selection. everything else is not nearly important. with my 300 mag, MY percentage is quite high, i voted 61-70%. part of this is because i shoot, not as much as i would like, but a lot compared to many hunters. the second is having a caliber that is capable of delivering enough hydraulic shock to the animals body. and, of course bullet selection does play into this. a fmj bullet will blow clean through almost any animal, but will now transfer much hydraulic shock. you need a bullet that will RELIABLY expand WITHOUT blowing apart inside the animal. when you get all three, working together, then everything works in harmony, and bang, down, its all over, but the cleaning. i do not think that there is any way (other than a bazooka) of guaranteeing a one shot drop everytime. but you can maximize your efforts. it is up to you to do the home(range)work.