Realistic Garand accuracy

[hillbilly]

I've seen a couple of threads lately about the accuracy of Garands.

Well, I got my first Garand today, and took it out to the range to play.

Here are pcitures of a couple of targets to show what kind of accuracy is realistic for a 50 or 60 year old semi-automatic battle rifle.

The rifle is a 1953 Springfield that was a Service Grade from the CMP.

The ammo was 1970s Korean M2 surplus. (Don't worry, I've already Windexed and cleaned as precautionary measures.....yes, the gas tube and bolt face, too).

So I shot the first 8-round clip at 100 yards, and the windage was perfect, only a bit low. Then, I shot two more clips and kept adjusting the elevation.

Then, I guesstimated the necessary elevation adjustment to take on a silhouette target at 300 yards. Made the clicks, put in the clip, and six out of eight hits on a torso silhouette at 300 yards.

Yee-haw, indeed.

And then, I made clicks back down to where I started, and tried two targets back at 100 yards.

The orange circles are 3 inches in diameter.

I was shooting off a rest.

Flourescent orange circles on white sheets of paper are very hard to see at 100 yards.

But here's what I think is realistic accuracy for a service grade Garand with military grade M2 ball ammo at 100 yards.

hillbilly

 

[ocabj]

Most Garands I've seen at my range will do 3MOA or less. Try the Greek HXP. It shoots a lot better than Lake City. Not sure about Korean. I've never used Korean M2.

 

[Ermac]

aren't they gorgeous? Also, the "ching" sound when it ejects...ah, music to my ears

 

[CZguy]

The Korean ammo that I've used is not very accurate, but it's very affordable.

 

[smince]

All I've ever shot out of my Garands' is either Federal GM Match 168grn or my reloads with a 168 Matchking and 4895. Either will shoot 1.5" or under if I do my part(from a rest). My two are a Korean "Blue Sky" rework(SA receiver) and a 1944 Springfield.

 

[colt.45]

wow thats wierd

the first time i shot mine i got a 4" group.

 

[P-32]

There are a couple of simple things you can do to help the rifle out.

Make sure the top rear hand guard is not touching the receiver. A very small amount of wood may have to be trimmed away.

The gas cly. can be locktighted to the barrel spines. Some will peen the barrel splines to get a tight fit and this works well too. I have a match tuned 308 M-1 and service grade Springer. Both have the gas cly tied down. The op rod can be removed without taking the gas cyl off.

Glue the front hand guard down so it won't rattle against the gas cly. This might make it illegal for J. C. Garand matches however. If you have a chance to shoot these matches I would do so as they are a real hoot for those starting out as well as those who shoot HP all the time.

Make sure the barrel is free of copper. Your post war Springer should shoot better than what you showed if using good surplus and careful handloads. GI's cleaned their barrels until they where shiney but othen times left copper in the bore.

You will have to use powders with burn rates between 3031 and IMR 4064. I have found I get the best results over all with 155 SMK's and IMR 4064, but with 147 grain ball bullets I found a killer load using IMR 3031 for the '06 M-1.

The 308 M-1 is different with best results coming from 168 SMK's and IMR 4895.

 

[el44vaquero]

I love those old garands. I've been looking at one of the new garands that springfield is making. I wonder if they are as tough as the originals?

 

[mustanger98]

The biggest groups I shot with mine after zeroing were fist-size... probably 4" or so at the biggest, but I didn't take a ruler to it. These loads include handloaded 165gr SP's running 2500fps with 4064 and 147gr BT's running 2400fps with 4895. From standing, and this was on a good day and shooting Lake City 1969, making my shots count I was hitting clay birds on the 100yd berm. The club prez saw me do it too.

My M1 is a Service Grade Springfield returned from Denmark. Muzzle and throat both guaged a 2.

 

[Sean Cloherty]

The best I've got is a couple of 3" groups at 100 yards using my 1942 Springfield M1. It was using M2 ball from the Western Cartridge Corporation - headstamped WCC 1953.

Wish I could get some more of that . . .

 

[Ermac]

I love those old garands. I've been looking at one of the new garands that springfield is making. I wonder if they are as tough as the originals?

I have a Springfield remake and a CMP Garand. The new springfield feels just as sturdy as the originals. No problems with it at all.

 

[gaven]

SHOT THIS TARGET LAST MONDAY AT 250 YARDS OFF A REST WITH A REBARRELED M1 USING SURPLUS 7.62 NATO

 

[MechAg94]

I can't say I have gotten much better groups than those pictures, but I don't consider myself much of a target shooter anyway. My Garand is much more accurate than I am and I hope to get better.

 

[hillbilly]

Howk, I read your post, and I thought long and hard about it.

Shouldn't you be busy playing CounterStrike?

hillbilly

 

[hillbilly]

Okay howk, got it.

Instead of uppity-young whippersnapper, you're crusty old so-and-so.

hillbilly

 

[hillbilly]

I like carrying the extra 10lbs around because I need the workout.

I need the workout to keep up with spry old farts like you, howk.

It's really impressive that somebody who shot his first Garand 35 years ago still has enough energy to rack up 17 different posts on about as many threads all in just under one hour since you got onto this board.

Wow.....that's really moving for an old guy.

hillbilly

 

[mustanger98]

So why lug around a pointless extra 10 lbs of rifle and ammo?

A question for another thread. It also sounds like something a troll would post.

 

[Steve in PA]

A question for another thread. It also sounds like something a troll would post.

LOL, sounds like Santa brought someone a computer for Christmas

 

[MarshallDodge]

why not use the 10 lbs of carrying capacity for something useful, like rifle-rated body armor?

Good point. I still like my Garand and AR15 but if push came to shove (or SHTF) I would grab the AR.

 

[ocabj]

and I don't have to stop to look up the info on everything, like everyone else has to do. Nope, it's an honest question, for which there is no honest answers, other than ignorance.

That question had nothing to do with the intention of the original post.

The original post was talking about Garand accuracy. He didn't ask about what guns would shoot better than the Garand. You didn't see other people posting "My custom benchrest gun in 6mm PPC will shoot .1" groups at 100 yards". The original post wasn't about the feasibility of carrying a Garand for modern combat use. So why pose the question "So why lug around a pointless extra 10 lbs of rifle and ammo?"

Why didn't you just start a new thread comparing the Garand and M4 for use in modern combat situations instead of hijacking this one?

and I don't have to stop to look up the info on everything, like everyone else has to do. Nope, it's an honest question, for which there is no honest answers, other than ignorance.

Learn some web forum ettiquette. We've come a long way since the debacle of Usenet back in the mid 90s.

To get back on topic, I'm not sure what the Korean M2 you shot was moving at, but I found that the closer you are to 2800-2850fps (10 ft from the muzzle with a 150gr bullet), the better. I think that's the primary reason why the Greek HXP shoots more accurately than the late Lake City. The late LC moves at a 'leisurely' speed of 2650fps. The HXP that I've tested hits 2850-2900 fps. This may sound hot, but original M2 was spec'ed at 2770fps 70ft (or so) from the muzzle.

 

[mustanger98]

LOL, sounds like Santa brought someone a computer for Christmas

Yeah, and he not only hooked up to the net, he probably hooked it into the stearing/guidance system on his assault wheelbarrow too.

 

[ocabj]

is speed of repeat hits. The only reason to bother with something like a Garand is combat. The M4 is a quite superior combat rifle. You can target shoot with a .22 rimfire, or indeed, a pellet gun. The fact that you don't even understand your own psyche does not mean that others don't.

Do you understand what I was trying convey to you in my previous post? This. Is. Not. A. Thread. About. Garands. And. Modern. Combat. Use. Or. Garands. Versus. The. M4.

 

[No_Brakes23]

Did someone spray Troll-Be-Gone on this thread? One second it is a 2 page thread with was sounded like an Airsoft fan yapping about "BOOM Headshot!" or something, and now that's all gone.

Anyway, does anyone know how a Compensator would affect Garand group size, if at all?

Like say this compensator:

 

[mustanger98]

It appears that in the fog of war, the troll has disappeared.

If a moderator cleared him out, we owe them thanks.

Now, as to M1 accuracy, I haven't shot late-manufactured LC, but understood the 1969 stuff was running about 2900fps. I could be wrong, but that's IIRC.

The 147gr BT-FMJ's I shot running 2400fps, I test fired them at 25yds as per the old 1000" range, more or less. They had light recoil and cycled the action reliably. While they grouped tight at 25yds, I really need to do further testing to know how they perform at distance- 100yds to start with- in my rifle. I don't really see me doing much with the 165gr hunting loads as it's not legal to hunt deer here with anything semi over 5rds mag capacity, so why use SP's as a general rule?. That LC69 though, it rocks and don't beat me up in the process so what more do I need?

 

[ocabj]

Now, as to M1 accuracy, I haven't shot late-manufactured LC, but understood the 1969 stuff was running about 2900fps. I could be wrong, but that's IIRC.

The 147gr BT-FMJ's I shot running 2400fps, I test fired them at 25yds as per the old 1000" range, more or less. They had light recoil and cycled the action reliably. While they grouped tight at 25yds, I really need to do further testing to know how they perform at distance- 100yds to start with- in my rifle. I don't really see me doing much with the 165gr hunting loads as it's not legal to hunt deer here with anything semi over 5rds mag capacity, so why use SP's as a general rule?. That LC69 though, it rocks and don't beat me up in the process so what more do I need?

Pretty much all the LC from the mid 60s up to the last year of USGI M2 (say 1972...) is pretty mild at under 2700fps.

But, what I have noticed withthe 30 cal 147-150 gr FMJBT bullets made today is most of it is too short compared to original M2 FBJ open base bullets. The modern 147-150 stuff is oriented towards .308/7.62 application. Thus, when I see people load these for .30-06 in the Garand, they will seat to the cannelure in the bullet, which usually results in an COL that is pretty short, and the ogive is way short of the lands of the barrel. So if you load the modern bulk 147-150 FMJBTs for the Garand, try using a bullet comparator and measure the base to ogive length of a loaded LC M2 or HXP M2 cartridge. Then adjust your seating die to seat your 147-150gr FMJBTs such that the base to ogive measurement is of a similar length. Even better would be to get the Stoney Point tool to measure where the lands are at.

I bought a 500ct box of the Hornady 150gr FMJBT bulk bullets from Midway awhile back and found pretty good results when I did seat such that the ogive length was comparable to the LC M2 base to ogive length (as opposed to when seating to the cannelure). There was more than enough bullet left in the neck for proper neck to bullet tension.