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Reason for owning?

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by halfded, Feb 20, 2010.

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  1. halfded

    halfded Member

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    I was perusing the ATF's "fun forms" (1 and 4) and there is a section on form 4 that says "I have a reasonable necessity to own 'insert fun item here' for the following reasons" and then there's a blank.

    Similarly, there is a section on Form 1 that asks the reason for building the applied for firearm.

    Just wondering what an acceptable answer would be to a question like that. I know it's probably a bad idea to write "because I can" or "I like guns ALOT" or something. I'm guessing listing collection as a reason might pass unser the radar.
     
  2. GaryG

    GaryG Member

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    I've said, "Investment and Collection" on my 6 Form 4s . . never had a problem.
     
  3. lions

    lions Member

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    I was told by my dealer to put "personal collection and investment". He said that is one reason that they have never seen denied.
     
  4. Gord

    Gord Member

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    Heh... if I'm ever loaded enough to apply for a MG stamp I'm going to try the "because I can" line. If they approved it I'd probably frame it and hang it on my wall.
     
  5. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Member

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    I think "all lawful purposes" is a popular reason on Form 1's. I believe that may be what I used.

    To be honest, I don't have any idea how much the ATF cares about that section. Unless you just put something idiotic there, I can't imagine that it makes the difference between approval and disapproval of a tax stamp. In fact, I could imagine a pretty good lawsuit if you got disapproved for any reasonable response to that question.

    It is a tax thing, after all. If there was a tax on wheat that you had to voluntarily pay if you wanted to own wheat, can you imagine them asking why and discriminating based on the response?

    You don't ever have to explain to the IRS why you'd like to pay taxes on your income. You don't have to justify the need for a Ferrari when you go to pay your taxes on it at the local DMV.

    If the NFA laws were something other than a tax act, then maybe they'd be able to insist on a good reason. In my view, it's like the difference between shall-issue and may-issue concealed carry permits. If you don't pass a background check and pay a fee, you can be denied a CCW even in shall-issue state. But if it's shall-issue, you don't have to have a good reason to want it.

    Aaron
     
  6. PTK

    PTK Member

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    "All Lawful Purposes" on all of my F1s and F4s.
     
  7. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    "All lawful purposes" is a good, all encompassing answer, unless your local laws have more stringent requirements. For example, the only acceptable reason for North Carolinians to obtain (or make) short barreled firearms or suppressors is R&D or scientific research. Basically, your answer has to be a lawful activity- "to whack the dang dog next door" WILL be rejected. Some cutsie answers are acceptable (like J. Pratt's "Chicks dig short barrels"). Some forms referring to zombies have also been approved, though some examiners are appropriately kicking those applications back know because zombies don't really exist, thus the person can't honestly want the firearm for anti-zombie uses.
     
  8. halfded

    halfded Member

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    If I was to apply for a suppressor, think they would accept "hearing protection" as an answer?
     
  9. garyhan

    garyhan Member

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    It is my understanding that they aren't too picky as long as the answer isn't flippant. "All lawful purposes" works, as does "to enhance my collection". A guy on the silencer talk board was recently delayed permission for a short barrel rifle when he gave as a reason "chicks dig sbr's". Don't count on federal employees to share your sense of humor.

    gary
     
  10. WoofersInc

    WoofersInc Member

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    I saw that form. I personally use "for collecting and recreation"

    The form that got kicked back for Chicks dig SBR's is funny. That has actually been used and approved before. Some on that board have put in some wild reasopns and have gotten the forms back approved.
    One that I saw was "for when the zombies come"


    It all comes down to who the examiner is and what type of day they are having.
     
  11. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname Member

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    As long as the reason given didn't state or imply an illegal reason (for example, "disappointed with recent election results" would probably be a bad reason to use) then it should be approved. But don't get cute, just put "all lawful purposes" and go on with your life.
     
  12. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    Saw a form 4 with "zombies" as the reason. Approved.
     
  13. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    I use "enhance firearm collection".

    Ranb
     
  14. forindooruseonly

    forindooruseonly Member

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    I've always used the "Investment and collection" approach and have never had a problem.
     
  15. Tim Pierce

    Tim Pierce Member

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    I used "All legal & lawful purposes".
     
  16. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    My dealer prints “All legal purposes” on the form 4’s. All of my form 1’s I used “Asset to the Trust”.
     
  17. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    That's good!

    I have to believe that over the years, there have been forms with "because I can", or "just because" as reasoning. But I wonder how far it has been pushed. Wonder if anyone ever used the word 'tyranny' or simply wrote "Shut up! That's why!".:D
     
  18. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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  19. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    The form I saw was a form 4. The guy lives two miles away from me. I did the transfer. Thanks.
     
  20. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Yeah, there have been loads of funny reasons on F1s and F4s.
     
  21. hhmorant

    hhmorant Member

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  22. Big44mag

    Big44mag Member

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    Some people tend to stay away from "Investment", if you buy something as an investment then you are showing intent to sell at a later date for profit which you can't do without a license when it comes to certain items. Some also stay away from "All Legal Purposes" because of the possibility of a current law being reworded or a new law imposed that "legal purposes" have no "defined" purpose therefore being unnecessary and the item in question would be required to be turned in. I guess some people are paranoid but when "Zombies" and "Chicks Dig SBRs" used to pass and now sometimes don't, I guess you have to ask yourself one question "Do I Feel Lucky?".

    Concerning most SBRs and SBSGs though, if something happened to where you had to relinquish your "item", you could just pull the upper and strip the receiver, then you'd only be out a few hundred $$.

    Personally I like "Enhance Collection", that pretty much covers you.
     
  23. Big44mag

    Big44mag Member

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    hhmorant,

    Nancy Flanigan huh? Had a couple of talks with her, congrats on the SBSG.
     
  24. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    Me too. She's my inspector as well.
     
  25. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    AFAIK, the only thing you cant sell is a 10% or 80% receiver that you finished. If you can buy it, you can sell it later for a profit.

    In NC, NFA items can be sold FTF. Of course, the seller has to hold onto the item until the buyer gets his form 4.
     
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