Calibers on Form 1

[jojo200517]

Ok i'm getting pretty interested in building a SBR. I have noticed several people right now saying that it is no longer acceptable to list "multi" as caliber on your Form 1. My question is would one be in any kinda trouble for listing out every caliber they could ever think of possibly wedging into the item on the Form 1.

The reason I ask is this, lets says the weapon is .45 acp right now, but that means I can't really legally put a .22lr conversion kit in it without listing that on the Form 1 from what I understand.

Now lets say down the road that just maybe in theory I want .380, 9mm, .40S&W, and .460 rowland while I'm at it. Would there be anything wrong with listing every caliber I could possibly want to run thru the receiver even if the chances of me using them are really slim to none?

As long as it didn't have anything obviously unable to be used in the receiver like a .300 win mag listed would listing many calibers slow down the paper work, or would listing anything more than 1 or 2 slow it down regardless?

Oh and one more fun one, is there a limit to the number of calibers you can list?

 

[Aaron Baker]

My understanding has been that if you list one caliber, then that's the "default" caliber, for lack of a better term. If it's an AR15, for instance, you can temporarily install a difference short barrel upper, as long as you intend to change back to the caliber listed on the form 1.

If you intend to "permanently" change it, then the ATF wants you to write them a letter and let them know. There's no approval process-just a notification.

Personally, I have an AR15 SBR on a form 1. I filled out .223 on the form 1, because that's the upper that's usually on it. But I also built an upper in .458 SOCOM, and occasionally I put that upper on it for hunting.

As I understand it, there's no problem with that. The form 1 allows you to build a short barreled rifle. Nothing in the law that says you can't change its caliber, as long as you're using the same registered receiver.

Aaron

 

[TexasRifleman]

There are 2 schools of thought I've heard promoted over the years, both make perfectly good sense.

1) List every caliber you can possibly think you might want to use someday on the Form 1 from the beginning, write small if you need to. You can't put "multiple" any more but you can put more than one.

The other school of thought is vastly different but makes sense too.

2) The caliber listed on the Form doesn't matter. The form exists to describe the firearm you are manufacturing at that time. Take the case of an SBR. The SBR legal definition does not have anything to say about caliber. The Form 1 allows you to "make" an NFA firearm where none existed before. There is no law that says you cannot modify an NFA firearm. So, once you have the tax stamp in hand you may modify your SBR as long as it stays an SBR (can't jump to FA or AOW for example). If you want to change calibers on a Title 1 firearm that's no problem, and there is no difference on an NFA firearm in the law. The tax stamp allows you to have in your possession an SBR (in this case) and the specific caliber on the form has no legal weight whatsoever.

I personally believe that #2 has merit, but when I make an SBR I follow #1's method and just list every caliber I can think I might ever use.

I do that, not for concern about ATF, but for concern about some local yahoo LEO I might run across who has NO idea what he's looking at. In Texas it is a crime to have an NFA firearm, even with a tax stamp. It is a defense to PROSECUTION that you had the tax stamp. So, you get some over zealous LE who decides that he's going to arrest you because your form says 5.56 and you have .50 Beowolf well... you're going for a ride.

Paranoid? Yes. Absolutely

 

[jojo200517]

Yeah I was thinking it would be much easier to write extra small in the areas where you list caliber and barrel length and put in as many as humanly possible. Better than the ride in the back seat with shiny bracelets on and blue flashy lights overhead.

Possible to attach a second page? I'm guessing they would frown on that. Altho under section i. it says "State why you intend to make firearm (use additional sheet if necessary)"

 

[jmorris]

They kicked my last one back for “multi” you list additional calibers in 4h IIRC just always have the upper for the correct OAL, barrel length and caliber for the paper work with you. I also have the phone number to the NFA branch in my phone as well.

 

[CapnMac]

In Texas it is a crime to have an NFA firearm,

Am I mis-remembering one of the AG update emails? That while we Texans are under the onus of only having protection from prosecution, so we are all still at risk of arrest, detention, and property seizure; that we are supposed to be presumed innocent? And that without regard to whether we are NFA or not?

So, that, it's not that NFA is "illegal" per se, but that there are enough LE out there who would presume some risk to public order and safety unless the bearer and the property were secured?

I could have this wrong, it has happened before (and I run in a crowd that can get "a pass" on too much stuff, too).

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

For a while guys were listing a caliber range, like .22 lr-.50 beowulf for ARs, but I remember a thread a couple of years ago on ARFcom where some were going through like that and some were getting kicked back. I'd do what TexasRifleman suggested.

 

[TexasRifleman]

So, that, it's not that NFA is "illegal" per se, but that there are enough LE out there who would presume some risk to public order and safety unless the bearer and the property were secured?

Texas Penal Code 46.05(c) says that is a defense against PROSECUTION that the firearm has a tax stamp. That means that you may be arrested for having the gun. The DA will then verify the status with ATF and drop the charges if things are in order.

Does that actually happen? I can't say one way or the other but it is the law. If the AG has advised LE not to arrest that is great, but the law still says what it says. So you are right, NFA items are not illegal, but one can be arrested until their status as NFA firearms can be confirmed.

Guilty until proven innocent? Yeah thats what it seems to say.