Reasons for getting a handgun over getting a taser?

[Oxide]

Couple thoughts.

1. You have to decide whether or not you want to be the victim or you want the other guy to be the victim. Everything is about surviving the attack these days, nothing is about prevailing. This lady needs explained to her that, unless she feels the need to WIN, she is ALREADY a victim in her mind.

2. Wasp spray, when used premeditatively, is a chemical weapon and is illegal. If you have cans of wasp spray by the bedside, and you aren't allergic to wasps or something, then that's pretty obvious what you are doing with it.

3. Killing someone in self defense is the easiest thing to recover from when the choices are brutal rape and mutilation, or death. Two reasons: 1. There's no physical harm to recover from, and 2: once you get past the guilt, you realized that a scumbag came after you, and you WON, and you kept yourself, and his future victims, safe.

4. Use the best tool for the job. Tasers, pepper spray, wasp spray; they're all much worse tools for the job than a good gun and someone trained to use it. You either make the commitment to defend yourself against attack, or you don't.

 

[Mark-Smith]

A lot of things you've said here and there have thrown off my idiot alarm, but this remark has put up every red flag I've got. I don't know if you're fresh out of mom's house, have been sheltered all your life, or if you've just got absolutely no common sense, but I strongly urge you to not talk about guns with anyone less knowledgeable than yourself.

Everyone makes "stupid mistakes" under stress, especially when trying to handle a gun or any other tool. That's the whole point of training. That's why cops and guys in combat jobs in the military aren't just given a gun and thrown into the fight. That's why interviews in fields where you're required to be armed consist of big panels of people interviewing you all by yourself. They know everyone makes stupid mistakes in stressful or uncomfortable situations, and they want to see how you'll react when you make one; not if you make one.

I don't know what your background consists of; or whether you carry a gun day in/day out, or if you just fire your guns a couple of times a year. What I do know is that you have way too arrogant and casual an attitude to be talking to anyone about the pros and cons of carrying a book of matches, much less any type of lethal weapon. I have no idea why people are even offering advice here. This entire thread should be closed before any more damage is done.

Hi there Mr. Authority on all things firearm related. You may wish to alter your tone slightly.

When I say "A fair amount of drilling to not make stupid mistakes" I mean 'Not shoot yourself under stress' and 'Not create a situation where your firearm becomes completely inoperable'. I don't mean fumbling rounds, or forgetting whether the safety is on or off, I mean somehow getting the gun to where the muzzle is pointed at yourself while you troubleshoot it.

Fumbling with getting it loaded, forgetting there isn't a round in the chamber, forgetting if the safety is off or on - those are just mistakes. Killing yourself or someone who isn't a bad guy is a stupid mistake (if it was reasonably avoidable), as is doing something to your weapon while in a stressful situation where it cannot be cleared or made operable short of having a gunsmith work on it.

When I say 'a fair amount of drilling', I don't mean 'practicing at the range three weekends a month and firing 200-500 rounds a month'. That should be a completely reasonable amount for anyone. I mean more than that. Like anything else, how many hours you log doing something and how productive those hours were has a lot to do with the success or failure of any pursuit. If you've logged a few thousand hours with firearms growing up vs someone who hasn't logged a single hour with one, the approach reasonable training for both will differ quite a bit.

I'm not certain if this is obvious, but those who are not in the military or police tend not to have large amounts of training for handling stressful situations. So you're not going to be able to apply that yardstick to the average civilian. Nor are they likely to get that level of training. Let's drop that line of argument where it stands.

Surprise surprise, most civilians are not the gung-ho THR types or former / current military / police members. They still have a right to survival and to defend their lives against others. They have limits as to what they'll do as far as practicing and drilling, and you have to work within that. You can't just say 'thirteen weeks of boot camp or you're a loser that shouldn't have a firearm'.

Nor can you expect the average Joe or Jane to drill endlessly, doing house clearing drills, active shooter, what have you. I'm not saying one should tolerate mediocrity, just that the real world is a bit different from the world you seem to envision.

Perhaps you hold different views than mine. If you think mine are so dangerous that the thread needs to be closed, I worry that the next thing you'll be stating is that only certain people should have guns, or that some books should be burned in a fire.

I can peacefully debate with others, and hopefully learn from them - can you do the same?

 

[Steve C]

The OP's friend like many people is reacting to an event (home break in) and her desire to obtain some means of self defense is to satisfy her current feelings of helplessness and the emotions generated from the event. It doesn't matter if she gets a gun or a taser because the issue isn't about a real threat to her person and self defense, it is about her psychological need to regain the feeling of some control and power in her life and the feeling that either a Taser or a firearm will provide of having some means to maintain that control.

A firearm is a more effective method of dealing with an attack but the reality is as the event fades the likelihood that a firearm or Taser will be carried for defense outside the home will diminish. The likelihood of her ever actually needing either is relatively small unless there are additional risk factors like a high crime neighborhood, association with criminal elements, bad relationships, etc.

Most logical response to a break in would be to increase the home security, get a dog along with her choice of self defense method. Get some information on threat assessment and self defense either through a class or reading. A weapon regardless of capability does you no good if you are not alert to an intrusion or threat. The best personal security is awareness and avoidance.

 

[Bobson]

Perhaps you hold different views than mine. If you think mine are so dangerous that the thread needs to be closed, I worry that the next thing you'll be stating is that only certain people should have guns, or that some books should be burned in a fire.

That's the most ridiculous comparison I've ever heard. And I have no problem debating with people and learning from them. But you're right, only certain people should own guns. Only a fool would disagree without thinking it through.

Take care, hope your friend doesn't kill herself or someone else because of the poor advice, lack of truth, and disregard for education given to her by you.

 

[Mark-Smith]

That's the most ridiculous comparison I've ever heard. I have no problem debating with people and learning from them. My problem is debating an issue with someone who thinks everyone should own a gun, and nobody should have the truth regarding the weight of that decision to own one.

Take care, hope your friend doesn't kill herself or someone else because of the poor advice, lack of truth, and disregard for education given to her by you.

I don't think everyone should own a gun - that's up to the individual. Everyone should have the right to a gun.

If you hold that everyone has the right to a firearm, you can't place yourself in a position of authority as to who shouldn't have one. The only exception I can imagine is restrictions on violent criminals.

I actually haven't said a word to anyone yet, so no need to worry about the quality of advice

That's why I come to THR - to see what those around me who happen to be familiar with firearms think.

I am curious though - let's start off at the beginning - what advice is poor, what is a lie and what is a disregard for education?

 

[Bobson]

I don't even think everyone should have the right to own a gun. Guns are great. Not all people are. Some are just plain bad. Others are irresponsible. Others aren't sane. Others are immature.

There are a huge number of people who should never have the right to own a gun, many of which I didn't even mention. I don't want to get into it though. Take care, and good luck.

 

[Mark-Smith]

I don't even think everyone should have the right to own a gun. Guns are great. Not all people are. Some are just plain bad. Others are irresponsible. Others aren't sane. Others are immature.

There are a huge number of people who should never have the right to own a gun. I don't want to get into it though. Take care, and good luck.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then. I do appreciate the desire to give good advice.

 

[tipoc]

Mark-Smith,

In post number 46 you go over some more of her thinking. From what you say she is pretty adverse to the idea of using deadly force, at least in the form of a firearm. Over time she may change her mind or not. I've known a number of people like this over the years. You can maybe talk some of them into something but if their mind is against it the concept won't hold.

I encourage them to take a self defense course or courses geared to defense against violent attack. There are many such courses available. She does not need to set out to be a Kung Fu master or any thing along that line just a few classes to get her mind opened some and learn a few techniques she can practice with others. This is often a gateway to more study and training for some. Very useful for men and women, the latter particularly in building confidence.

Tasers, hand held stun guns, bear spray, a baseball bat, etc. can all be useful tools and are relied on by many who can't come to the use of deadly force. Some don't realize how deadly a baseball bat can be actually. They will come to some things in their own time or not.

You may want to draw her attention to this site...

www.corneredcat.com

tipoc

 

[Mark-Smith]

Mark-Smith,

In post number 46 you go over some more of her thinking. From what you say she is pretty adverse to the idea of using deadly force, at least in the form of a firearm. Over time she may change her mind or not. I've known a number of people like this over the years. You can maybe talk some of them into something but if their mind is against it the concept won't hold.

I encourage them to take a self defense course or courses geared to defense against violent attack. There are many such courses available. She does not need to set out to be a Kung Fu master or any thing along that line just a few classes to get her mind opened some and learn a few techniques she can practice with others. This is often a gateway to more study and training for some. Very useful for men and women, the latter particularly in building confidence.

Tasers, hand held stun guns, bear spray, a baseball bat, etc. can all be useful tools and are relied on by many who can't come to the use of deadly force. Some don't realize how deadly a baseball bat can be actually. They will come to some things in their own time or not.

You may want to draw her attention to this site...

www.corneredcat.com

tipoc

Appreciate the reply tipoc,

I must admit I'm a bit stymied as to what to say to someone who really wants to fend off a burglar, or be prepared to, but can't stand the thought of violence. Bit outside of my standard sphere of acquaintance, you might say.

The corneredcat website seems to be a really good resource, appreciate the link greatly.

I feel badly about someone looking for help in defending themselves that doesn't quite know what to do, but honestly, I'm not sure what I can say to help anything. If they're leery of guns and worry more about getting a floor messy with blood than surviving an encounter with an intruder, I must admit I'm at a loss as to what to say.

I worry that preaching about X will just turn the person off to X. On the other hand, they're a good acquaintance and if they need help, I don't want to say nothing you know?

 

[Panzercat]

Iv been hit with a civilian tazer and yes it hurt and it stopped me but I was able to stay on my feet. A few seconds after I, for the most part was just fine. Just imagine some drugged up junky he probably wouldnt even feel it.

I wasnt even in any kinda life or death situation to get the adrenaline going we were just a bunch of stupid college age kids playin with a tazer.

Good stunguns don't work on pain. They work on the rapid dump of muscle energy through electrically induced twitching, effectively paralyzing the attacker. It's the short bursts/low voltage/half charged batteries that are ineffective pain inducers.

Playing devils advocate, consider a stun baton. Normally the entire length of the baton is charged, not only giving you some measure of stand off range, but making it harder to disarm you by a simple hand grab. Anybody grabbing any length of the baton gets zapped.

All that said, a hand gun is the preferred deterrent since it lets the badguy know there is only one outcome to their continued aggression; moral dilemmas aside.

 

[StrutStopper]

Tasers are totally illegal in this state. So are stun guns. Handguns are not. Getting a CCW permit is another story, still working on it.

 

[Ducman69]

The "best" taser that I'm aware of is the Taser X3, however, I'm not even sure if its for sale to civilians yet, its quite bulky, and you're still limited to three shots which a thick jacket can defeat with next to no intimidation power.

So until much "less lethal" no longer means much "less effective", I'll continue to choose the most effective tools at my disposal.

I do know individuals that for moral reasons would rather die themselves than kill another, and for them tasers are the next best thing IMO followed by pepper spray.