Rebarrel an Arisaka?
- Thread starter BrocLuno
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"Something to think about if you're handloading for a Springfield 03, if that small pin ever shears off, that holds the back half of the 2 piece firing pin to the bolt shroud, the shooter eats the firing pin."
Huh? There isn't any pin holding the back of the firing pin to the bolt sleeve.
Jim
Huh? There isn't any pin holding the back of the firing pin to the bolt sleeve.
Jim
WardenWolf
member
Hmm. The best option may be 6.5x47mm Lapua. It has a similar case length (47 mm versus the Arisaka's 51mm) and only a slightly larger rim size (12.01 mm versus 11.84 mm, and a shorter overall length. It is likely you could adapt the bolt to fit it. It should also fit and feed in the magazine with only minor modifications.
“some of the above information is just completely WRONG. The Mauser does NOT have a "complete ring" in the receiver breech, it is cut through the right side, front to back, exactly like the Arisaka. Take a light and look in there for yourself. What you are seeing is the barrel face, not the receiver, behind that cut slot for the extractor”
“it is cut through the right side, front to back, exactly like the Arisaka” I do not believe it is me as in your reference to “you” that needs to look, I have 12 Mauser receivers that are going to get barrels, you know, pick me, pick me. I as in your reference to “you”, all I have to do is pick pick up a receiver, measure from the face of the front receiver ring down to the torque/seating ring to determine the length of the barrel shank, you know, I want to determine which hits first the barrel face or the shoulder at the end of the threads. I do not feel cheated, none of my Mausers have an extractor that goes from the back of the receiver ring to the front of the receiver ring “LIKE THE JAPANESE 38”. The ring around my Mausers ‘98’ STANDARD receivers are complete circles, again, no cuts except, again, except in the rear/right side of the front receiver ring,
Then there is the Japanese design, Remington has the ring around the ring around the ring, one member of this forum was yelling “Where are the three rings, I can only find two” and I replied with “It is in your hand, look in your hand, the bolt! the bolt is the other ring etc.. THEN! he purchased a set of Redding Competition shell holders, instead of contacting Redding he choose to tell me.
Then there was the ‘X’ Mauser, the ‘X’ had cuts down both sides through the seating surface/torque ring, still again, the cuts did not extend into the threads, the cuts were nothing like the Model 38.
Then there were the Parker Hail, Midland, Gibbs type receivers, no barrel seating surface/torque ring, the barrel seated on the front of the receiver ring, something like a pipe fitting, like, the 03 and M1917. Even then there were differences, THREADS! the threads were different, I will not live long enough to explain the advantages/disadvantages of difference threads. A friend walked down the rang, picked up his barrel, on the way back he was talking to himself, seems he loved the Mauser brothers, he did not know how much until his barrel decided to leave his new creation.
“Naw, I think I'll keep working on my "off record" Arisaka for a while” BrocLuna, I am surrounded with very talented machinist and smiths and reloaders, we do not always agree, there are times we can not as with “off record”. I have little to no interest in the Japanese rifles, but if I did, with 50+ barrels including 7mm57, 8mm57, 30/06 7.65mm53 BM and 6.5mm55, replacing the barrel (or part of it) would be a lot of work but doable.
Captain Crossman, “Take a light and look in there for yourself”? For most when the bolt closes the light goes out, the chamber gets dark, so, there is a devise that produces the light, then there is the other type of light, I do not need the devise that produces light, again, I check head space three different ways with out a ‘HEAD SPACER” gage, instead I measure the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber.
F. Guffey
“it is cut through the right side, front to back, exactly like the Arisaka” I do not believe it is me as in your reference to “you” that needs to look, I have 12 Mauser receivers that are going to get barrels, you know, pick me, pick me. I as in your reference to “you”, all I have to do is pick pick up a receiver, measure from the face of the front receiver ring down to the torque/seating ring to determine the length of the barrel shank, you know, I want to determine which hits first the barrel face or the shoulder at the end of the threads. I do not feel cheated, none of my Mausers have an extractor that goes from the back of the receiver ring to the front of the receiver ring “LIKE THE JAPANESE 38”. The ring around my Mausers ‘98’ STANDARD receivers are complete circles, again, no cuts except, again, except in the rear/right side of the front receiver ring,
Then there is the Japanese design, Remington has the ring around the ring around the ring, one member of this forum was yelling “Where are the three rings, I can only find two” and I replied with “It is in your hand, look in your hand, the bolt! the bolt is the other ring etc.. THEN! he purchased a set of Redding Competition shell holders, instead of contacting Redding he choose to tell me.
Then there was the ‘X’ Mauser, the ‘X’ had cuts down both sides through the seating surface/torque ring, still again, the cuts did not extend into the threads, the cuts were nothing like the Model 38.
Then there were the Parker Hail, Midland, Gibbs type receivers, no barrel seating surface/torque ring, the barrel seated on the front of the receiver ring, something like a pipe fitting, like, the 03 and M1917. Even then there were differences, THREADS! the threads were different, I will not live long enough to explain the advantages/disadvantages of difference threads. A friend walked down the rang, picked up his barrel, on the way back he was talking to himself, seems he loved the Mauser brothers, he did not know how much until his barrel decided to leave his new creation.
“Naw, I think I'll keep working on my "off record" Arisaka for a while” BrocLuna, I am surrounded with very talented machinist and smiths and reloaders, we do not always agree, there are times we can not as with “off record”. I have little to no interest in the Japanese rifles, but if I did, with 50+ barrels including 7mm57, 8mm57, 30/06 7.65mm53 BM and 6.5mm55, replacing the barrel (or part of it) would be a lot of work but doable.
Captain Crossman, “Take a light and look in there for yourself”? For most when the bolt closes the light goes out, the chamber gets dark, so, there is a devise that produces the light, then there is the other type of light, I do not need the devise that produces light, again, I check head space three different ways with out a ‘HEAD SPACER” gage, instead I measure the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber.
F. Guffey
Then there is the cone face of the barrel, I have always thought it looked like part of a shaped charge.
Then there is case head protrusion, the Mauser 98 barrel is flat, the case head protrusion is .110 ++++ (do not want to forget the difference between the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber and the head of the case from the head of the case to its shoulder). On the 03 and M1917 case head protrusion is LESS! Who measures? Me, I measure, case head protrusion on the 03 and M1917 when measured from the bottom of the extractor cut is .090, meaning, the 03 and M1917 has more case head support than the Mauser 98 ++++ the difference in length between the case and chamber when measured from the usual places.
And while I am talking about measuring, I have a choice, not all case head thicknesses are the same from the case head to the top of the cup (for those without a light, cut the case body off the case head). My surplus case head thickness for surplus 30/06 cases is .200”, when I choose to use R-P commercial cases I choose them because the case head is .260"+ thick. Means nothing to most but I like case head support, the 03 and M1917 design offers more case head support. The added case head thickness is added safety for those that do not check case head protrusion. Then there are those square threads, when critiquing I do not want to come off like I am WIAE (Wildly indignant about Everything). It is always good to find some or a little good in everything.
F. Guffey
Then there is case head protrusion, the Mauser 98 barrel is flat, the case head protrusion is .110 ++++ (do not want to forget the difference between the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber and the head of the case from the head of the case to its shoulder). On the 03 and M1917 case head protrusion is LESS! Who measures? Me, I measure, case head protrusion on the 03 and M1917 when measured from the bottom of the extractor cut is .090, meaning, the 03 and M1917 has more case head support than the Mauser 98 ++++ the difference in length between the case and chamber when measured from the usual places.
And while I am talking about measuring, I have a choice, not all case head thicknesses are the same from the case head to the top of the cup (for those without a light, cut the case body off the case head). My surplus case head thickness for surplus 30/06 cases is .200”, when I choose to use R-P commercial cases I choose them because the case head is .260"+ thick. Means nothing to most but I like case head support, the 03 and M1917 design offers more case head support. The added case head thickness is added safety for those that do not check case head protrusion. Then there are those square threads, when critiquing I do not want to come off like I am WIAE (Wildly indignant about Everything). It is always good to find some or a little good in everything.
F. Guffey
Interesting stuff here as I have 2 Type 99's rebarreled in 257 Roberts. One in a hacked standard stock and one that looks like a Richards Microfit stock. My father in law says they were built from $3 surplus guns in the early 50's. I keep them around because they came down from family.
FROGO207
Member
I also have an older type 38 that is also rebarreled in 300 SAV. It really is an accurate rifle and no makers marks on the barrel other than the stamped caliber. If it could talk.
OP
OP
BrocLuno
Member
Well, I'm still tinkering. I finally pulled these out of storage and started breaking down receivers and barrels so I could match the best of each together. I now have a Type 44 carbine barreled action with nice bluing that took the fully functional T-38 bolt from an old cast-iron "school rifle". I have a T-99 barreled action with a hack-job bolt bend , and another with a nice receiver and a factory Nagoya bolt.
Taking these apart to sort actions and barrels (the barrels are all shot out with faint rifling) and trying to find good barrels, it has come to me that the strength of this action is the deep seating bolt into the chamber. The receiver does not need to be heavy or robust. As long as it's strong enough to withstand rearward pressure, it's strong enough. All the radial pressure is inside the chamber in the barrel. No wonder you can't blow one up
I have always liked the bolt. Easy to disassemble and clean. The trigger is iffy as far as tuning. But Timney makes replacements that are retained by the original pin location and are fully adjustable with trigger block safeties.
I wish I could find 2-piece Weaver bases that fit the Arisaka receiver contour ... 35 and 46/48 do not. The #70 one piece base is OK, but needs to be relieved to allow easier cartridge loading.
I have now "rescued" about 5 Arisaka's. They come drifting in from all sorts of places. My Pop's original bring back "Last Ditch" that we shot to learn on. Some that were parking lot trades for other rifles, etc. The more I tinker, the more I'm intrigued. Some of the shooters we have built out of hack-jobs have turned out to be light and easy "woods" rifles. I can tell you from being there - a 7.7 will put down a Pig in a hurry.
Still thinking about 6.5mm ... But now, I'm going to stay with the 6.5x50 JAP. I have four or five boxes of brass to reload that were given to me by other guys at the range, so I'm set to play with 6.5
Doing elder care for Pops, and until that's done, I won't have time to assemble anything truly unique. But I have one 6.5 barrel threaded and a sleeve built so I can dampen it with Cermic Expoxy between the barrel and the sleeve. We'll see how a "dead" barrel goes...
The sleeve is aluminum and this is all going onto a Richards stock. The Type 44 Carbine barreled action is going onto the School Rifle stock (oddly, they alone are one-piece wood, and bigger than the battle rifle stocks ...).
Anyway that's the progress report ...
Taking these apart to sort actions and barrels (the barrels are all shot out with faint rifling) and trying to find good barrels, it has come to me that the strength of this action is the deep seating bolt into the chamber. The receiver does not need to be heavy or robust. As long as it's strong enough to withstand rearward pressure, it's strong enough. All the radial pressure is inside the chamber in the barrel. No wonder you can't blow one up
I have always liked the bolt. Easy to disassemble and clean. The trigger is iffy as far as tuning. But Timney makes replacements that are retained by the original pin location and are fully adjustable with trigger block safeties.
I wish I could find 2-piece Weaver bases that fit the Arisaka receiver contour ... 35 and 46/48 do not. The #70 one piece base is OK, but needs to be relieved to allow easier cartridge loading.
I have now "rescued" about 5 Arisaka's. They come drifting in from all sorts of places. My Pop's original bring back "Last Ditch" that we shot to learn on. Some that were parking lot trades for other rifles, etc. The more I tinker, the more I'm intrigued. Some of the shooters we have built out of hack-jobs have turned out to be light and easy "woods" rifles. I can tell you from being there - a 7.7 will put down a Pig in a hurry.
Still thinking about 6.5mm ... But now, I'm going to stay with the 6.5x50 JAP. I have four or five boxes of brass to reload that were given to me by other guys at the range, so I'm set to play with 6.5
Doing elder care for Pops, and until that's done, I won't have time to assemble anything truly unique. But I have one 6.5 barrel threaded and a sleeve built so I can dampen it with Cermic Expoxy between the barrel and the sleeve. We'll see how a "dead" barrel goes...
The sleeve is aluminum and this is all going onto a Richards stock. The Type 44 Carbine barreled action is going onto the School Rifle stock (oddly, they alone are one-piece wood, and bigger than the battle rifle stocks ...).
Anyway that's the progress report ...
Last edited:
entropy
Member
A lot of Arisakas were re-chambered for .257 Roberts and .257 Roberts Improved because they didn't need to be rebarrelled that way. Just sayin.
Dog Soldier
member
I have an Arisaka Type 44 6.5X50 under folder bayonet in nice condition. It is accompanied by a Papa Nambu Pistol. The luger was also a WWII P/U.
These guns were brought back from WWII by family members. The 6.5X50 is a very mild Ctg. The carbines are made to hit very high at 100 yds.
These guns were brought back from WWII by family members. The 6.5X50 is a very mild Ctg. The carbines are made to hit very high at 100 yds.
Ive been tinkering with a t99 sporter for bout a year now, its been a fun project. Parts have seemed to dry up suddenly over the last few months, I was seeing decent shape barrels available all the time, not so anymore.
If so inclined i think you could use the front base from an xp100 for both bases on an arisaka.
If so inclined i think you could use the front base from an xp100 for both bases on an arisaka.
OP
OP
BrocLuno
Member
Dog soldier, that's very nice stuff. Way better than anything I have.
Loonwulf, I'll check that out sounds reasonable. XP100 -> Arisaka
Loonwulf, I'll check that out sounds reasonable. XP100 -> Arisaka
Dog Soldier
member
BrocL, Thank you for your kind comment. My father's family all served in WWII. They were all gun people. They must have shipped most of Hitler's Mausers and Lugers home to my Grand Father.
Clemson
Member
For what it's worth, here is a link to a project rebarreling an Arisaka.
Bill Jacobs
http://www.sporterizing.com/index.php?showtopic=9108
Bill Jacobs
http://www.sporterizing.com/index.php?showtopic=9108
LoonWulf,
Try ebay or gunbroker. Numrich did have shortened sporter barrels for a reasonable amount. I often see barreled T99 receivers with scrubbed crests and tapped for scopes on gunbroker and quite a few barrels on fleabay from time to time. If you avoid the last ditch Arisaka T99 barrels, the others T99 barrels are chromed and usually in pretty good shape. The cut sporterized barrels bring less than the military barrels generally.
For those needing ammo, Grafs and Sons specializes in Prvi Partisan's military line including the 6.5x50 and 7.7 Japanese--loaded ammo and brass which is much more reasonable than Norma.
Try ebay or gunbroker. Numrich did have shortened sporter barrels for a reasonable amount. I often see barreled T99 receivers with scrubbed crests and tapped for scopes on gunbroker and quite a few barrels on fleabay from time to time. If you avoid the last ditch Arisaka T99 barrels, the others T99 barrels are chromed and usually in pretty good shape. The cut sporterized barrels bring less than the military barrels generally.
For those needing ammo, Grafs and Sons specializes in Prvi Partisan's military line including the 6.5x50 and 7.7 Japanese--loaded ammo and brass which is much more reasonable than Norma.
Good info boomboom! I just looked at ebay again, its been a while, and your right prices arnt as low as i was seeing last year but there are a pretty good number of barrels and other doodads on there right now.
Also as to the ppu stuff, im using both the brass and .312 btsp in my scoped t99 to good results, i can recommend them.
Also as to the ppu stuff, im using both the brass and .312 btsp in my scoped t99 to good results, i can recommend them.
OP
OP
BrocLuno
Member
New info: Weaver #24 bases fit the contour just fine. Apparently someone else figured this out as one of my receivers is drilled for 24's both front and rear bridge. So that one will be easy to scope
TRX
Member
> I'm going to stay with the 6.5x50 JAP
A fine and underrated cartridge. Its main disadvantage was that brass was expensive and hard to find until recently.
If you decide to rebarrel it... note the .50 Beowulf has the same case head size as the 6.5x50...
A fine and underrated cartridge. Its main disadvantage was that brass was expensive and hard to find until recently.
If you decide to rebarrel it... note the .50 Beowulf has the same case head size as the 6.5x50...
MidwayUSA had Norma 6.5 Jap brass on sale and Santa was nice this year. I have 60 pieces of Graf brass that has done pretty well so far. But the chamber has lots of space for the brass expand to when fired. They have been fired several times and some have been hot loads. I shot all 25 pieces of Norma brass this past weekend just to fire form them to the chamber. Pick a load at random, a few grains less than max and headed to the 300 meter range. . My normal load I have hit 10 inch steel gongs repeatedly at 300 meters with open sites. But this load would be a couple 100 fps slower. After a few misses, a 6 o'clock hold would impact 3" off the bottom of the gong. This was using 140 gr Amax bullets and IMR 4064 powder. I don't have a fast enough twist barrel for the 140 Amax's but it is a good challenge to hit that gong repeatedly and that gong is pretty small 300 meters away.
My rifle is a type 38 that is not number matching, is missing the dust cover and no sling. It looks pretty good for a 1930's era gun and shoots well enough to hunt with. I need to get a longer cleaning rod for the 29" barrel though.
. My normal load I have hit 10 inch steel gongs repeatedly at 300 meters with open sites. But this load would be a couple 100 fps slower. After a few misses, a 6 o'clock hold would impact 3" off the bottom of the gong. This was using 140 gr Amax bullets and IMR 4064 powder. I don't have a fast enough twist barrel for the 140 Amax's but it is a good challenge to hit that gong repeatedly and that gong is pretty small 300 meters away.My rifle is a type 38 that is not number matching, is missing the dust cover and no sling. It looks pretty good for a 1930's era gun and shoots well enough to hunt with. I need to get a longer cleaning rod for the 29" barrel though.
Clark
Member
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