Zor Omega
Member
Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with any of these. Do they really work that well. If so what brand is best?
Recoil Buffer for the AK47?
- Thread starter Zor Omega
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JesseL
Member
Unless you're having some kind of problem that a buffer might solve (like the bolt carrier popping off the rear of the rails), I wouldn't bother with one.
Zor Omega
Member
no the rifle is working perfectly. I was just wondering if it helps with felt recoil. I was rapid firing my rifle the other day, and that son of a gun was jumping everywhere. Just wanted to know if this would help with it.
JesseL
Member
If I was having a felt recoil problem on my AK, I'd try a better muzzle brake (maybe the AK-74 style), or sticking with cartridges in the 120gr range (as opposed to the 150gr loads).
Recoil buffers have a reputation for causing malfunctions in AKs.
Recoil buffers have a reputation for causing malfunctions in AKs.
dstorm1911
Member
No a buffer will not help with felt recoil the AK recoils assembly is designed so that the bolt carrier should never touch the rear trunion if it does ya need a new recoil spring
HOWEVER what a buffer will do is give the bolt carrier something to actually hit which transfers these impacts to the two rivets holding your rear trunion eventually loosening these rivets as they are not intended to ever be touch, the bolt carrier should stop 4 mm before it contacts the rear trunion in a properly functioning AK rifle, if ya add a 5/16" thick buffer now its slamming into the buffer which in turn transfers the impact to the stock........
Ya will never find a pro AK builder who will ever recomend instalation of a buffer, in the event of a build where the upper rails have been trimmed to short allowing the carrier to jump up ya install a milled recoil assembly, the solid rod acts as an extra guide locking the bolt carrier into a fixed travel pattern
HOWEVER what a buffer will do is give the bolt carrier something to actually hit which transfers these impacts to the two rivets holding your rear trunion eventually loosening these rivets as they are not intended to ever be touch, the bolt carrier should stop 4 mm before it contacts the rear trunion in a properly functioning AK rifle, if ya add a 5/16" thick buffer now its slamming into the buffer which in turn transfers the impact to the stock........
Ya will never find a pro AK builder who will ever recomend instalation of a buffer, in the event of a build where the upper rails have been trimmed to short allowing the carrier to jump up ya install a milled recoil assembly, the solid rod acts as an extra guide locking the bolt carrier into a fixed travel pattern
Zor Omega
Member
Ok, maybe the recoil buffer was a bad idea. ( I'm still kind of new to this) I have a Romanian AK wasr10, and it has the lug welded on at the end of the barrel. So how do I install a muzzle brake?
DoubleTapDrew
Member
^^^^^^^^
I'll make sure to keep those the heck away from my AK!
I'll make sure to keep those the heck away from my AK!
JesseL
Member
It's possible that there are threads under that muzzle nut. It may be possible to cut the weld, remove the nut, install a detent spring and plunger, and attach a muzzle brake. That's what worked for my Romanian WUM-1.
If there's no threads, you might me able to get a gunsmith to figure out how to attach a muzzle brake.
If there's no threads, you might me able to get a gunsmith to figure out how to attach a muzzle brake.
rangerruck
Member
I have two, mushy thin ones, on my Saigas, they seem to work very well.
I don't remember the name of the mfgr, kinda a pirate-y sounding name if I remember right...
I don't remember the name of the mfgr, kinda a pirate-y sounding name if I remember right...
Ad Astra
Member
In itself the buffers aren't a bad idea- if you don't have one on a Marlin Camp Carbine, the stock will crack from the bolt slamming the back of the receiver. It's made to use one, and they need to be replaced with age.
Some firearms benefit from them, but the AK doesn't.
Some firearms benefit from them, but the AK doesn't.
Thin Black Line
Member
This is normal, shoot slower. Lifting weights and eating your wheaties between
trips to the range will also help.
JesseL said:
You could also consider threading it yourself. There are several guys around the forums that rent the kits for about $20. I threaded my Saiga barrel last night and it took about 30 minutes.
That's a AKC (now Primary Weapons) J-Tac 47 compensator in the second picture.
Jim
dstorm1911
Member
if ya add a muzzle attachment to a WASR10 be aware the rest of the rifle then must be brought up to 922R to be leagal, no muzzle threads are one of the criteria to get it around 922R as a sporting rifle........ thats why they weld the nut on in the first place instead of just screwing on a cheap US made brake or even nut....... all about the numbers game, same goes for the Saiga NAVY87, just threaded to be legal it had to have no threads so now that it is threaded the rest of the rifle has to comply with 922R regs.........
MIL-DOT
member
lancasters come with buffers....
" Ya will never find a pro AK builder who will ever recomend instalation of a buffer "
i recently got a romanian G model AK built by lancaster,who according to everything i've been able to dig up on them IS a reputable "pro AK builder", and their guns all come with the recoil buffer. should i yank this thing out,or what ????
" Ya will never find a pro AK builder who will ever recomend instalation of a buffer "
i recently got a romanian G model AK built by lancaster,who according to everything i've been able to dig up on them IS a reputable "pro AK builder", and their guns all come with the recoil buffer. should i yank this thing out,or what ????
DoubleTapDrew
Member
I didn't realize threads were part of the criteria, just that it had to have a certain number of U.S. parts. My vector has a threaded muzzle and screw on slant type brake.
kcmarine
Member
^ yeah, I was wondering about that too. Should OEM recoil buffers be removed?
Time to break out the manly Scotsman routine.
"Oh, come on, laddy. Recoil buufer? What are ye, a pansy? My grandmother, God rest her soul, would take a bloody Mosin and hold the thing with her dentures whilst she fired it. Ye limey girly man, take it like a trew Scotsman."
Just kidding.
Time to break out the manly Scotsman routine.
"Oh, come on, laddy. Recoil buufer? What are ye, a pansy? My grandmother, God rest her soul, would take a bloody Mosin and hold the thing with her dentures whilst she fired it. Ye limey girly man, take it like a trew Scotsman."
Just kidding.
MudPuppy
Member
If the 7.62x39 recoil is a bit much, another option is a 5.45 or a 5.56.
I've got 'em in both my AKs.
And they'll stay there. I use the better variety, from BufferTech. I noticed an immediate reduction in the felt recoil, as the bolt carrier doesn't slam into the rear of the receiver anymore.
Since I'm not made of money, and Bulgarian SLR-95s and Romanian SAR-1s aren't getting imported again any time soon, a couple dollars of preventive maintenance via polyurethane recoil buffer is a worthwhile investment on my part.
Oh, for the nay-sayers, I haven't had any problems with reliability or cycling since I installed them. Then again, my AKs get nothing but quality Dillon 550 handloads, no steel-cased surplus crap.
And they'll stay there. I use the better variety, from BufferTech. I noticed an immediate reduction in the felt recoil, as the bolt carrier doesn't slam into the rear of the receiver anymore.
Since I'm not made of money, and Bulgarian SLR-95s and Romanian SAR-1s aren't getting imported again any time soon, a couple dollars of preventive maintenance via polyurethane recoil buffer is a worthwhile investment on my part.
Oh, for the nay-sayers, I haven't had any problems with reliability or cycling since I installed them. Then again, my AKs get nothing but quality Dillon 550 handloads, no steel-cased surplus crap.
MIL-DOT
member
uh,fellers..(KC & mudpuppy) ...methinks you're missing the point. the recoil buffers in question aren't so much for minimizing the shooters' felt recoil from the big 'ol scary com-block round, but to minimize the alleged damage caused the bolt slamming rearward into the reciever. all kidding aside,anyone have any useful, hard facts? as always, many thanks for any help.......m.r.
kcmarine
Member
Dude... I was kidding...
But do you remove them if they're already installed?
Do Saigas have them?
But do you remove them if they're already installed?
Do Saigas have them?
dstorm1911
Member
The AK was never designed to use any form of buffer, otherwise ya would find em with the reciever lengthened to allow for the buffer and one already in place instead they relied on a properly calculated recoil spring resistance to slow the bolt before it ever made actual contact, even with a totally wore out recoil spring the only contact is a slightly scuffed finish.
Rather than tryin to post a whole set of pics here....... this link is to an Artcical I did awhile back useing a totally beyond wore out 1964 Romanian GP (full auto) parts set... the recoil spring was so collapsed it was actually only providing 11 lbs of resistance and 2" shorter than a new spring yet...... well the pics of the rear trunion and bolt carrier tell the story
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=31796
A "recoil buffer" in the reciever has zero effect on any reduction in recoil it can however add recoil as now the bolt carrier is actually hitting something... if ya want to really reduce recoil slightly (the 7.62x39 really doesn't have any recoil to be reduced) ya can add a +15% Wolff recoil spring...
And yes if ya have one that some builder installed (generally simply cause they are assemblers rather than weapons engineers and really don't understand the Engineering thats went into the AK recoil assembly and has been used as engineered for the last 60 years succesfully without any buffer) Ya will increase the lifespan of your rifle considerably by not having a buffer in there for the bolt carrier to be smacking into. Or maybe all the millions of AKs built and used around the world the last 60 years were all deffective because none of these countries weapons engineers ever thought of adding junk in the form of a buffer....... oh wait that can't be it since they did use buffers in weapons designs that do need them such as the PPSH and the blow back subguns, the UZI the Thompson Machine gun etc... so I guess they do know how to make buffers for weapons that need em....... So I guess that would mean that the only purpose an AK buffer serves is to seperate naive Americans from $10 which coulda been better spent on a new recoil spring
Wanna really see some buffer fun? Put an in-the reciever buffer in a CETME and watch your front trunion welds start cracking from the bolt carrier then by-passing the real buffer which was ENGINEERED to be BEHIND the stock socket well with a Blackjack buffer installed in FRONT of the stock socket the BC can nolonger make contact with its real buffer instead it slams into the front of the stock socket which it was never designed to do so the impacts get transfered up the reciever to hammer the trunion welds until they eventually break.......... same effect by putting a buffer in front of an AK rear trunion the gun was ENGINEERED so that the BC would never contact the rear trunion except in a critical failure so now its gettin hammered and the rivets start loosening until........
Edit, here is how ya test to see if your recoil spring is actually deffective allowing rear trunion contact which just requires a new spring; ya take a piece of masking tape place it on the rear trunion now fire the rifle then look at the tape....... if its cut by the bolt carrier ya need a new recoil spring....... at least thats how the romanian engineers tested them........ I'm probably full of s#t though I only have one uncle who's a former Romanian weapons engineer and only been buildin AKs for 15 years so...... leave it in, and we do re=pair the damage it runs $175 for us to remove the rear trunion, repair the egged out rivet holes then re-heat treat then re-rivet your trunion back in, a refinish which is needed if ya want it to look original again is $130 so hey depending on how much ya shoot it as it'll take about 5K rounds to loosen the rear trunion rivets then ya can go a few years so save up and when ya start noticing the rear trunion rivets shifting (ya will see a shiny halo around the rivet heads) then give Omega Weapons systems a call I'll cut ya a break for bein a board member on the cost of repair say $50 off or so...
Have fun
Rather than tryin to post a whole set of pics here....... this link is to an Artcical I did awhile back useing a totally beyond wore out 1964 Romanian GP (full auto) parts set... the recoil spring was so collapsed it was actually only providing 11 lbs of resistance and 2" shorter than a new spring yet...... well the pics of the rear trunion and bolt carrier tell the story
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=31796
A "recoil buffer" in the reciever has zero effect on any reduction in recoil it can however add recoil as now the bolt carrier is actually hitting something... if ya want to really reduce recoil slightly (the 7.62x39 really doesn't have any recoil to be reduced) ya can add a +15% Wolff recoil spring...
And yes if ya have one that some builder installed (generally simply cause they are assemblers rather than weapons engineers and really don't understand the Engineering thats went into the AK recoil assembly and has been used as engineered for the last 60 years succesfully without any buffer) Ya will increase the lifespan of your rifle considerably by not having a buffer in there for the bolt carrier to be smacking into. Or maybe all the millions of AKs built and used around the world the last 60 years were all deffective because none of these countries weapons engineers ever thought of adding junk in the form of a buffer....... oh wait that can't be it since they did use buffers in weapons designs that do need them such as the PPSH and the blow back subguns, the UZI the Thompson Machine gun etc... so I guess they do know how to make buffers for weapons that need em....... So I guess that would mean that the only purpose an AK buffer serves is to seperate naive Americans from $10 which coulda been better spent on a new recoil spring
Wanna really see some buffer fun? Put an in-the reciever buffer in a CETME and watch your front trunion welds start cracking from the bolt carrier then by-passing the real buffer which was ENGINEERED to be BEHIND the stock socket well with a Blackjack buffer installed in FRONT of the stock socket the BC can nolonger make contact with its real buffer instead it slams into the front of the stock socket which it was never designed to do so the impacts get transfered up the reciever to hammer the trunion welds until they eventually break.......... same effect by putting a buffer in front of an AK rear trunion the gun was ENGINEERED so that the BC would never contact the rear trunion except in a critical failure so now its gettin hammered and the rivets start loosening until........
Edit, here is how ya test to see if your recoil spring is actually deffective allowing rear trunion contact which just requires a new spring; ya take a piece of masking tape place it on the rear trunion now fire the rifle then look at the tape....... if its cut by the bolt carrier ya need a new recoil spring....... at least thats how the romanian engineers tested them........ I'm probably full of s#t though I only have one uncle who's a former Romanian weapons engineer and only been buildin AKs for 15 years so...... leave it in, and we do re=pair the damage it runs $175 for us to remove the rear trunion, repair the egged out rivet holes then re-heat treat then re-rivet your trunion back in, a refinish which is needed if ya want it to look original again is $130 so hey depending on how much ya shoot it as it'll take about 5K rounds to loosen the rear trunion rivets then ya can go a few years so save up and when ya start noticing the rear trunion rivets shifting (ya will see a shiny halo around the rivet heads) then give Omega Weapons systems a call I'll cut ya a break for bein a board member on the cost of repair say $50 off or so...
Have fun
Some guns need the bolt rebound for proper cycling.
The M14/M1A is a good example of that. They can't use a bolt recoil buffer, so the ones you see for sale are simply oprod buffers.
Some guns should have had buffers in them from the day they were made. The Ruger 10/22's bolt stop pin is steel, sitting in an aluminum receiver. Repeated hammering of the bolt stop pin by the reciprocating bolt will wallow out the bolt stop pin holes over time. I've had a couple older 10/22's display that characteristic. Volquartsen and others came out with polyurethane bolt stop pin replacements, and they do wonders, both in reduced pounding, and also in keeping the crosshairs on target during prairie dog season. (Personal observation there...)
My Browning BAR and Auto-5 had bolt recoil buffers from the factory, as does my Colt AR-15. Go figure.
Some guns don't do well with buffers. The Shokbufs for 1911s used to disintegrate rather quickly, and during IPSC, I wouldn't use them at all - they caused malfunctions as they fell apart and left their remains in the guns. That soured me on the concept for that platform, so I don't use them in those guns anymore, either for fun or carry.
As for the AK, there's so much room in that receiver, and the bolt carrier and bolt's stroke is so long, there's no big problem having a 1/2" chunk of polyurethane riding the recoil spring guide's rear block. Even at full rearward stroke, the bolt is well aft of where it has to be to cock the hammer and pick up a fresh round from the magazine.
I bought my first BufferTech AK buffer to try in my brand-new milled receiver SLR-95, I think it was 1998. I was immediately impressed by the improved feel of the gun during recoil, with sight alignment being more consistent during firing, and no serious thunk as the bolt carrier impacted the rear receiver. That was all I needed to know when I bought my new stamped SAR-1, which was lighter and had a riveted rear trunion. I fired it a few times sans buffer, and then with it installed. The buffer has since stayed in that gun, and looks just fine after about 1K rounds to date.
I'm waiting for somebody to come loping along with the line that X-bazillion 3rd-world AKs don't have them installed. No kidding? And what happens when that 3rd-world AK owner wears out his Klack, hmmm? He contacts Ivan or Achmed and gets another one for relatively cheap, maybe a pig or chicken in trade. Try that here in BATF import-restriction country, where any AK may very well be the last one through the docks. We 'Merkins are lucky in that we can have semi-auto AK clones, but this ain't Somalia. I'll take care of what I have, thank you.
The M14/M1A is a good example of that. They can't use a bolt recoil buffer, so the ones you see for sale are simply oprod buffers.
Some guns should have had buffers in them from the day they were made. The Ruger 10/22's bolt stop pin is steel, sitting in an aluminum receiver. Repeated hammering of the bolt stop pin by the reciprocating bolt will wallow out the bolt stop pin holes over time. I've had a couple older 10/22's display that characteristic. Volquartsen and others came out with polyurethane bolt stop pin replacements, and they do wonders, both in reduced pounding, and also in keeping the crosshairs on target during prairie dog season. (Personal observation there...)
My Browning BAR and Auto-5 had bolt recoil buffers from the factory, as does my Colt AR-15. Go figure.
Some guns don't do well with buffers. The Shokbufs for 1911s used to disintegrate rather quickly, and during IPSC, I wouldn't use them at all - they caused malfunctions as they fell apart and left their remains in the guns. That soured me on the concept for that platform, so I don't use them in those guns anymore, either for fun or carry.
As for the AK, there's so much room in that receiver, and the bolt carrier and bolt's stroke is so long, there's no big problem having a 1/2" chunk of polyurethane riding the recoil spring guide's rear block. Even at full rearward stroke, the bolt is well aft of where it has to be to cock the hammer and pick up a fresh round from the magazine.
I bought my first BufferTech AK buffer to try in my brand-new milled receiver SLR-95, I think it was 1998. I was immediately impressed by the improved feel of the gun during recoil, with sight alignment being more consistent during firing, and no serious thunk as the bolt carrier impacted the rear receiver. That was all I needed to know when I bought my new stamped SAR-1, which was lighter and had a riveted rear trunion. I fired it a few times sans buffer, and then with it installed. The buffer has since stayed in that gun, and looks just fine after about 1K rounds to date.
I'm waiting for somebody to come loping along with the line that X-bazillion 3rd-world AKs don't have them installed. No kidding? And what happens when that 3rd-world AK owner wears out his Klack, hmmm? He contacts Ivan or Achmed and gets another one for relatively cheap, maybe a pig or chicken in trade. Try that here in BATF import-restriction country, where any AK may very well be the last one through the docks. We 'Merkins are lucky in that we can have semi-auto AK clones, but this ain't Somalia. I'll take care of what I have, thank you.
I made a buffer out of a large rubber gasket and it works a lot better than any of the other buffers I have tried.
I only use buffers in 12ga and 308 AKs. I put on in my friends saiga 12ga it really helped. He claims it kicks less with 3 in mags than his pump 20ga. I think that is BS, but it did make a big difference.
I only use buffers in 12ga and 308 AKs. I put on in my friends saiga 12ga it really helped. He claims it kicks less with 3 in mags than his pump 20ga. I think that is BS, but it did make a big difference.
MIL-DOT
member
hey, KCmarine ....i knew you were kidding. i wasn't offended or annoyed, just trying to push the conversation in a productive direction.
p.s. i was a parris island/lejeune/pendleton/okinawa marine. would you believe the outgoing joint cheifs chairman peter pace was my battalion CO back when he was a light bird colonel?
p.s. i was a parris island/lejeune/pendleton/okinawa marine. would you believe the outgoing joint cheifs chairman peter pace was my battalion CO back when he was a light bird colonel?
Prince Yamato
Member
+1. I use one in my Maadi, it reduces recoil. You notice it after the bolt flies back. It stops the metal on metal contact. Instead of a KLACK, KLACK, you get a chick, KLACK.
AKs were made to operate with all sorts of crap in them. They really won't care if you put a stinkin' buffer in there.
I'm not a huge fan of adding crap to guns, but I think the Buffertech buffers work.
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