Recomend an entry level SxS for clays

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bunnielab

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I am looking to get a shotgun for Skeet and Sporting Clays and eventually bird hunting. I am pretty committed to getting a SxS rather than a O/U or an Auto. I know that many consider a SxS sub par for such uses but this will be a "fun" gun and I am pretty married to the idea of a SxS.

I am looking to spend around $800-1000 max but would be happy to spend less. If I end up with a cheaper gun I can always cut it down to a couch gun later when I can afford a nicer sporting gun.

The only guns around my max price range seem to be the CZ offerings and at the low end the Stoger Uplander seems to the the only option but if anyone has other ideas I would love to hear them.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that the SxS's seem to be a bit lighter than the O/U and for some oddball reason they seem to often come with a poor or no recoil pad. Figure on getting a good one installed for shooting clays. My SxS has a metal butt plate and that'll be changing REAL SOON! It's a sweet gun to shoot but if it's at all out of place and not sitting square on the bunched shoulder muscle it hurts like hell. Doesn't help that I'm a little boney across the shoulders either.

I'm a casual clay shooter myself. Just got started in fact. I've used my SxS and 870 so far for just one session of trap practice. Is using a SxS the optimum choice? Probably not if you listen to the serious clay shooters. But like you I just think there's something "right" about a SxS and it's just for fun anyway.... at least for the time being.... :D

Can't help you much with specific choices since I'm pretty new to the whole shooting issue. But shotguns, more than with rifles, seem to set the price by the decor. If you can find a nice basic new'ish one from Remington or Mossberg or similar for a medium price it'll be likely to have the durability of the high priced options at the expense of the bling factor.

With the 870 for trap I loaded one at a time through the ejection port. This worked fine but the 870's a heavy gun to hold up for long sessions.
 
Can you explain why you're "married to the idea of a SxS"?

Note that you said, "the idea". How much experience do you have, actually shooting one?

What is it that you want from the SxS, vs. an O/U or auto?

Do you know why a SxS is not considered ideal for clays or skeet?

I have one, I like it, and I've used it at the range. There are reasons I'm asking these things, though.
 
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I want an SxS because Elmer Fudd was a childhood hero of mine. ;)

But really, I just like the way they hold and point and just find them more aesthetically pleasing then an O/U. I guess I think that they are the most fun option and if I really take a shine to clay games I can always buy a better gun.

As to your question "Do you know why a SxS is not considered ideal for clays or skeet?"
I always though it was because...

* At any given price point a SxS will be less likely to be well regulated
* A SxS will be lighter and thus cause greater felt recoil.
* A SxS has a wider and less clear sight picture.

But at any rate I have always loved them and would simply get a kick out of owning and shooting one.
 
The first reason is because they can have terrible problems with heat mirage. I've never had trouble with it, except with my SxS at the range. Barrels heat up, hot air scrambles your sight picture.

Regulation isn't such a problem; some really cheap SxS seem regulated okay these days. Cheap O/Us can be just as bad, too.

SxS aren't necessarily lighter. A lot of 12 Gauge SxS guns, generally the cheap ones, are heavy, and in the wrong ways. As a result, they feel like absolute crap to swing.

If they have a lot of felt recoil, it's more likely because of the stock drop than the weight. Some have a LOT of drop. This is incompatible with range shooting, generally, not just because of recoil. It can work great for doves flying right over you, but not much else.

The sight picture (until the barrels heat up) isn't necessarily a problem. It can be quite intuitive, with the rib between the barrels. The SxS can tend to favor vertical motion over horizontal, though. A well-balanced O/U or semiauto can swing very naturally on skeet targets.

You can get a pretty nice used O/U for a grand. Avoid the Browning Citori and all other guns that lock up under the monoblock, and you can get excellent pointing characteristics. The Browning Cynergy, Berettas, SKBs, etc. can "feel like a SxS".

You can also get a world-class semiauto for a grand, brand new.

A SxS with choke tubes? You're going to sacrifice that nice handling you want, and/or the longevity you need for range use, if you want to get the thing at that price. And it still won't work as well. There's a reason that I've seldom ever seen a SxS at the range, and it's not because everyone is smoking crack.:)

Is there any way you can do some trying before you do your buying?

One's notion of "aesthetically pleasing" can change rapidly, when you bust a bunch of difficult birds, or, conversely, when you miss a bunch in a row.

If you can try various guns, and you still really want a SxS, nothing will stop you from getting it (except that you'll want to spend more than a grand:) ).

Note that Beretta makes SxS field guns, and high-end "premium" SxS guns, but they don't make ANY competition SxS shotguns. It's not because they couldn't. They make a lot of O/U and Semiauto competition guns.
 
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SxS's can be a great joy to shoot, if they fit properly - make sure no matter what you end up with, you get it fitted, and not just with a recoil pad.

In your price range, a used Uggie can be had with nice fixed chokes, most likely in IC/M - great for hunting and good enough for most clays.

Have fun - check GunsInternational.com, GunBroker, GunsAmerica, AuctionArms, DoubleGunShop and others.

IIRC,ShotgunWorld.com has a forum for Uggie discussions
 
Thanks for the info about the Ugartechea guns. I knew there must be a ton of foreign makers that I had never heard of.

I really do understand all the cons of a SxS. For me most of the fun of clay games comes from the time spent outdoors, smoking a cigar with friends. If I can break 12-18 a round I am happy.

I had a briefly POS Norinco coach gun that was a blast. I sold it when I began to suspect that it was going to become a literal blast. I did love it though and it really gave me the SxS bug.

My shooting interests lay more towards revolvers and rifles but I enjoy clays in the spring and fall and want a gun that "fits" with the rest of my interests. If i wanted a fancy modern shotgun I would just buy an Auto 5. ;)
 
You might also look for an older AyA. Sears had them made for them. IIRC, it was a model 100 or 200...(sure someone can correct me on that if need be). They'll date IIRC, from the 50 or 60's. They are a nice sleeper/collector and should be well within your budget
 
Mossberg imports one, I've seen them at shows and they seem nice. I've never heard a bad report about them....

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I have an old Ithaca Flues that was "Grampa's gun" it seems to find the targets for you....

Good Luck,
 
Stoeger Uplander is a fairly decently built gun. It does not handle like a Purdey, but they work. There must be 50,000 of them in SASS cowboy shooting, and that is tough on a gun.
The Baikals are sturdy, but I don't think they handle all that well - but that is my opinion only.
Older Bernadellis are very nice handling, but I don't know how one would hold up to a lot of clays shooting.
Stevens 311 or Savage Fox B/BSE are well made, durable guns. If I was looking that is what I would go for first in your price range, unless you can get lucky.
A Browning BSS is a fine gun, but I don't think you will find one that cheap, but you might. Mine was I think $540 new, but that's ancient history now.
You might stumble onto a 12 gauge Winchester 23 for that price.
AYA Matadors were plain but the ones I have seen were well made.
If you want a SxS, get a SxS.
 
Actually, okay, well, maybe I first should say I don't shoot a lot of clays, just on occasion. But, I'll still state my opinion. :D I think I'd tend to the autoloader for clays shooting on a budget. Why, you ask? Because fit is important and a gun that fits perfectly shoots where you look. You can shim/adjust an autoloader for that perfect fit where that is not really possible with a box lock break open gun that you're going to pick up for cheap. Of course a SxS ain't the best option for clays for all the points that were already made, but I just think you'll shoot better if your gun fits you right and that's more likely to happen with a repeating shotgun. Gas autos are also lighter on the shoulder and give quicker recovery time on doubles, generally. On country doubles which our club shoots when it shoot clays, it's a little easier to shoot with a dual choke gun, IC for the low bird, mod or full for the high bird. But, in skeet, I'd think the auto would have advantages.

Like I say, I'm not a big clays shooter, but just thinking about gun fit. You can make that autoloader fit you like a glove and on a budget. Suit yourself, though. Doubles are fun, I have a couple. I think they make fantastic bird guns.
 
i bought a used stevens 311 at gun show $180 bucks 100% reliable had a gunsmith chop it down for me 18 1/4 inch barrels a pro job cost me 100 dollars put on a nice #4 bead on so total it under 300 bucks. stock isn't as pretty as some no duck hunting scene engraved on it but it goes boom every time i pull the trigger i love it i feel it fills my SxS needs
 
i bought a used stevens 311 at gun show $180 bucks 100% reliable had a gunsmith chop it down for me 18 1/4 inch barrels a pro job cost me 100 dollars put on a nice #4 bead on so total it under 300 bucks. stock isn't as pretty as some no duck hunting scene engraved on it but it goes boom every time i pull the trigger i love it i feel it fills my SxS needs
Click to expand...

Yeah, sounds like the perfect clays gun......:scrutiny:
 
had a gunsmith chop it down for me 18 1/4 inch barrels
Click to expand...

Yeah, sounds like the perfect clays gun......
Click to expand...

Well, without all the dead weight towards the muzzle, it would have to handle better than any 12 Gauge 311 I've had the displeasure of picking up.:D

I have an old Ithaca Flues that was "Grampa's gun" it seems to find the targets for you....
Click to expand...

I have an old Lefever Nitro Special 16 Gauge that works well (extremely similar predecessor to Ithaca NID). It was under 300 bucks, but it had a funky modified stock, some oil-soak damage in the wood (that ended up an ugly-looking fix thanks to my using the wrong kind of walnut:(). I had to do some work on it to make it worth using. It's also fixed M/F, not useful for skeet, nor all that great for Sporting Clays necessarily. That's not even getting into the challenges of 16 Gauge...:)

There's a whole spectrum of options out there, but I figure there's a difference between wanting to casually shoot some clays, and wanting to screw around with old guns to make them work.
 
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Don't let the naysayers discourage you. Clays have been shot with a sxs as long as clays have been thrown.

Skeet and sporting, IF you develop a shooting style conducive to THE GUN, can be shot very successfully. Trap has it's differences, and while not impossible, will present some significant challenges and mastery may elude a sxs shooter.

#1 - Get a gun that fits.
#2 - Spend time developing a style conducive to the gun (Hint - sustained lead isn't, and I suspect most of the naysayers don't intercept the target, but try to catch it with a shouldered gun).
#3 - Get a copy of Churchill's Game Shooting http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Church...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247280630&sr=1-1 Take it with a grain of salt, but read it and understand it.
#3 - Spend the dollars and get a session with a coach that understands the SxS game. It is a different way of shooting.

A SxS cannot be shot like an O/U or Autoloader if you expect to consistently dust birds.

Showing up at the range with a SxS and learning the games is a frustrating experience, especially when the Remingtonians are breaking 20/25 while pontificating that you'll never hit anything unless you pre-mount the gun and get the ahead of the target.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE (250 round a week) and soon you'll be going 48/50 from low gun with 3/4 oz handloads, winning some tournament money, and being absolutely deadly in the field, and more, much more than this, you did it your way.

http://www.fieldsportltd.com/gunroom/gun_view.php?gunId=730

http://www.fieldsportltd.com/gunroom/gun_view.php?gunId=816

http://www.fieldsportltd.com/gunroom/gun_view.php?gunId=749

Briley reams out chokes for cheap. I run 0.000 Cyl and 0.020 Mod.
 
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(Hint - sustained lead isn't, and I suspect most of the naysayers don't intercept the target, but try to catch it with a shouldered gun).
Click to expand...

Not a big fan of pre-mounting for SC, and I can't hit squat with sustained leads. Don't care for Remingtons. Can shoot trap with a SxS.

That doesn't invalidate your advice. I just think there's more to it than "naysaying.":)
 
There are many SC competitions that are now starting to include SxS as a side event to the main, so they're coming back. Along with small gauges, I can't think of a more FUN way to shoot clays........
 
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