Recommendation for a New Shooter

[Legionnaire]

Scenario: You're a late-middle-aged guy like me, who has multiple rifles in most of the classic cartridges: .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, 7mm-08, .270 Winchester, .30-06 Springfield, 7mm Remington Magnum, etc. (... this is not intended as an all-inclusive list). You enjoy them all.

A young man in your social circles, say the son of a friend, has expressed interest in shooting. He is late 20's, well educated, well employed, completely out of debt (save for a pending mortgage) so is able to spend some money. He is a bit of a nerd (i.e., likes to ask questions and understand what he is doing) and has shown some interest in reloading, but at this point, his shooting experience is limited to a couple of very satisfying range outings. He is definitely NOT a "tacticool" wannabe; he is intrigued by "long range" accuracy, though hasn't shot past 300, and while hunting is not a priority, it isn't something he is prepared to rule out, either. (Think, maybe, ideal future son-in-law?)

So here's the question: Given the development of a raft of new, efficient, light-recoiling cartridges (6.5mm and 6mm Creedmoor, 224 Valkyrie, etc.) that are already demonstrating their prowess on targets and game, and the introduction of comparatively inexpensive but high quality (quality defined as accurate and durable) rifles ranging from the Ruger American (low end) to the Bergara B14 HMR (high end), what rifle/cartridge combinations might you recommend to this interested young man?

See if you can get beyond what you like personally (hard for me to do, which is why I'm asking the question). If you want to argue for a classic rifle/cartridge combination, do so but please give your reasons. Likewise if you favor more recently introduced options. This is a real question for me. I like my classic cartridges and related wildcats. But if I were starting out today, knowing all I know now, would I go with a classic or adopt the new? I'm not sure. Help me figure it out!

 

[Gordon]

Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmore


https://www.brownells.com/firearms/...ision-rifle-6-5-creedmoor-24--prod105791.aspx

https://www.cabelas.com/product/LEU...5.uts?productVariantId=4672258&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT

 

[SharpDog]

Scenario: You're a late-middle-aged guy like me, who has multiple rifles in most of the classic cartridges: .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, 7mm-08, .270 Winchester, .30-06 Springfield, 7mm Remington Magnum, etc. (... this is not intended as an all-inclusive list). You enjoy them all.

A young man in your social circles, say the son of a friend, has expressed interest in shooting. He is late 20's, well educated, well employed, completely out of debt (save for a pending mortgage) so is able to spend some money. He is a bit of a nerd (i.e., likes to ask questions and understand what he is doing) and has shown some interest in reloading, but at this point, his shooting experience is limited to a couple of very satisfying range outings. He is definitely NOT a "tacticool" wannabe; he is intrigued by "long range" accuracy, though hasn't shot past 300, and while hunting is not a priority, it isn't something he is prepared to rule out, either. (Think, maybe, ideal future son-in-law?)

So here's the question: Given the development of a raft of new, efficient, light-recoiling cartridges (6.5mm and 6mm Creedmoor, 224 Valkyrie, etc.) that are already demonstrating their prowess on targets and game, and the introduction of comparatively inexpensive but high quality (quality defined as accurate and durable) rifles ranging from the Ruger American (low end) to the Bergara B14 HMR (high end), what rifle/cartridge combinations might you recommend to this interested young man?

See if you can get beyond what you like personally (hard for me to do, which is why I'm asking the question). If you want to argue for a classic rifle/cartridge combination, do so but please give your reasons. Likewise if you favor more recently introduced options. This is a real question for me. I like my classic cartridges and related wildcats. But if I were starting out today, knowing all I know now, would I go with a classic or adopt the new? I'm not sure. Help me figure it out!

Daniel Defense 5.56 M4 with additional uppers in 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39. Basically, you have a lot of bases covered with that setup (which I have). You have inexpensive ammo in all 3 calibers. But you should save the 6.5G barrel and not use the cheap bimetal Wolf bullets in it but use Hornady and keep it for precision work. Use the 7.62x39 with the cheap Wolf bimetal ammo for close in work and close in practice. You can use the 5.56 for practice at medium ranges as well.

 

[Charliefrank]

It seems both Ruger and Savage have bolt actions out now capable of good accuracy at very reasonable prices. These being rifles that would last a lifetime and be used for hunting and whatever tickled his fancy. As far as cartridge I would probably recommend something tried and true. Something he could easily find at most sporting goods stores in case he never makes the leap into reloading. Of course if he did he could fine tune said cartridge. As far as actual cartridge take your pick, they all perform well if used properly. .243, .270, .7mm-08, .308, 30-06.

 

[Legionnaire]

I guess an opening question for said wannabe shooter is whether or not he likes the look/feel of an AR-15. While I am NOT an AR guy (I have a couple, just not my thing), it is a flexible platform as you point out. The RPR chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor is definitely a vote in the "go new" category. Guess I should have made this a poll ...

 

[Milt1]

He sounds to me like a very intelligent person and I think a good sit-down discussion (perhaps over a beer or two) would provide a good starting point as to what he might like.

 

[johnnydollar]

Not on your list, but I always start a new shooter on the lowly .22LR. I've seen more newbies turned off (rather than on) by starting with even "mild" calibers like .243 or .22-250. ("Mild" is a relative term, and new shooters won't always agree with old shooters when it comes to defining "mild".) If he has progressed past the .22, please disregard this post.

 

[redneck2]

I don’t have one, but the RPR/Creedmore seems like a pretty good option. I’d make sure it has a good, repeatable scope.

 

[js8588]

6.5 Creedmoor gets the nod over the 6mm Creedmoor because of (current) ammo availability. A noob won't be getting into reloading immediately.
It has performance and manageable recoil while being perfectly suitable for any game animal in the lower 48.

Matches described personality too: New-ish yet competent & mature.

Platform? Going to disagree with the RPR for one reason: the stock sucks.

Howa bout this?
https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/howa/howa-hs-precision-rifle/

 

[someguy2800]

I would make his first centerfire rifle something that has high mechanical accuracy potential. I’ve found many people don’t know how well they are capable of shooting because they learned on dads 3 moa rifle and they just accept that’s all the better they can shoot, when in fact it was a limitation of the equipment. It’s impossible to learn the fundamentals of marksmanship if you can’t tell when it’s you or the rifle. But if your first rifle is a .7 moa gun you know your the one that pulled the shot so you can identify and correct it.

No telling what his tastes or preferences lean toward but I would encourage a bolt action, something like a Ruger Precision Rifle, any flavor of Tikka, or a savage in 6.5 Creedmoor. The reason for the 6.5 Creedmoor is there is plentiful amounts of factory match ammo available for an affordable amount of money, so it will be a simple process to find a sub moa factory loading in a quality rifle. I would suggest a quality 4-12 scope with finger resettable target turrets as well.

That should be the training rifle and he can dive into whatever suits his fancy from there.

 

[mokin]

I like the way SharpDog is thinking but if he's not into the AR-15 style rifle it's not going to work.

He sounds to me like a very intelligent person and I think a good sit-down discussion (perhaps over a beer or two) would provide a good starting point as to what he might like.

+1

He needs some talking to as well as experience with different rifles. If he wants to go with a bolt action I'd steer him toward a 6.5 Creedmore or 7mm-08.

 

[FL-NC]

As a hunting rifle ( a gun that is accurate, durable, etc.) that would get a low annual round count, I would get the RAR predator in 6.5 CM. As a fun gun, I would go 308, since this is a gun that would get round-year use and a high round count. 308 is cheap(er) to shoot, ammo availability is great, and reloading data and components abound if you decide to go that way. Not to mention reams of ballistic data.

 

[Varminterror]

Highly recommend the RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Why the 6.5 creed? He’s new, he needs some barrel life to get him used to the game - he’ll get 50% or more barrel life from the 6.5 creed than the 6mm version. Factory ammo is out there, compared to the 6 creed.

Why the RPR? It’s compatible with multiple mag formats, from cheap mil-surp mags to AI’s (get ARC’s). It’s adaptable for purpose. It’s also very easily rebarreled, so when he does decide to convert to a 6 creed, or 6 Dasher, 6.5x47L, 6XC, 338fed mag, 308win, whatever, he can simply change the barrel with a common AR barrel nut wrench. It’s as accurate as anything in its price class, and as reliable as.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Hard to argue the with the RPR for the money, 6.5 Creedmoor because of ammo availability, and when reloading starts a huge amount of proven load data.

If he wants to spend more coin on an arguably nicer rifle the Tikka T3x Tac A1 is ludicrously accurate in most reviews I’ve read. Comes with a coupon for additional mags right now, but without a voucher they’re pricey.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Alternatively wait for some offerings in bolt action .224 Valkyrie to materialize. Ammo will be marginally less expensive, and recoil will be basically nonexistent while still offering a very good trajectory.

 

[Legionnaire]

"Wisdom of the crowd" seems to be favoring one of the new cartridges. I don't own any of the three I mentioned (6 or 6.5 CM, .223 Valk), but I do have accurate bolt actions in comparable cartridges (.243 Win, .243 AI, .260 Rem) ... and a couple of ARs in 5.56x45. Easy enough to let someone shoot those to get a sense of comfort with recoil. Heck, could run him through a .308 all the way up to a 7mm SAUM if need be. I'm thinking that selecting a cartridge should come before choosing the launcher.

Appreciate the feedback. I was sort of leaning this way. The younger generation gets "new technology," and much as I like some of the traditional cartridges, I am becoming convinced that the two new Creedmoors may be better places to start--the 6.5, at least, since there are so many good factory loads for it. The 6 might be a hand load proposition for a while yet, but I suspect it is also going to catch on big time.

Recommendation for good glass duly noted.

 

[Varminterror]

The 6 creed is a very short life if he’s going to be shooting it much, reloading or not. 1500-1800 rounds at best. Easy to go through that much in a year. 50% more, to twice as much for the 6.5 version.

If he wants to compete in precision rifle games, then get the 6. If he wants to learn to shoot, get the 6.5.

 

[redneck2]

IMO, the perfect cartridge performance wise would be a 6BR. Super accurate, long barrel life, ultra accurate and zero recoil. It’s just never caught on

 

[Legionnaire]

I don't disagree with you on the qualities of the 6BR, but are you suggesting you would recommend a cartridge that "never caught on" to a new shooter? I love my .260 Remingtons, but have the growing feeling that it would be a disservice to recommend it to a new shooter despite its proven qualities. The market says 6.5 Creedmoor.

A tinkerer like me, however, might very well prefer a .260 Remington Ackley Improved!

 

[redneck2]

Didn’t suggest it at all. If you read my post above I said the Creed was probably an excellent choice.

There’s a reason car dealers have different models and colors. There is no “one size fits all”

 

[GAF]

I always start a new shooter on .22 rim fire.

 

[Legionnaire]

Roger that, redneck2. I sometimes forget who said what earlier in a thread.

Follow up. Interesting conversation after church this morning. A guy older than me, who knows I shoot, asked me about a new gun. He is retired military, so he had some training. His only rifle, which he enjoys, is a Garand; says he's never shot a rifle with a scope. He also has a couple of handguns. Now he's interested in a modern bolt-action rifle and wondered what I thought. I told him about this discussion and he said, "Yes, I've heard about the 6.5 Creedmoor. What rifle would you recommend?" So this is a timely topic!

 

[Llama Bob]

I would strongly suggest a .22 LR as either the first rifle, or part of a 2 rifle battery. I would make the second rifle a .223/5.56. Plenty good out to 800 (more with special loads), match ammo dirt cheap, low recoil, and long barrel life. For a platform, the AR is the obvious choice but whatever fits him and he likes would be best. ARs are very easy to fit to shooters though.

If he decides to hunt, buy a hunting rifle. Crossover hunting/target rifles are rarely a good thing IMO.

 

[NorthBorder]

OK, classic combination. I am going to the other end of the spectrum and suggest a Sharps in 45-70 or 45-90 if he is not recoil sensitive. Talk about a fun factor and bringing a smile on one's face. Definitely could be a long range shooter and, I would bet, not a difficult reload proposition. To me, a 223 is a 243 is a 6.5CM is a 30-06, et al. They are just a little variety in a couple of shooting platforms. But a bid ol' Sharps...

 

[taliv]

philosophically, always start by identifying the application, then pick a cartridge for it, then pick a rifle for it.

from what it sounds like, i'd definitely start him out with a 6.5 CM bolt gun (ruger, savage, bergara, whatever...) no sense whatsoever in going with an older one (308win or 243, 260rem, etc)

I would not start him on a "precision" gas gun. they're just too finicky and he will probably get frustrated. but after he gets hooked, then a gas gun would be a next step