redneck2
Member
If CZ had a CM chambering, that would be an option. Mine have been awesome. Doesn’t exist unfortunately.
If CZ had a CM chambering, that would be an option. Mine have been awesome. Doesn’t exist unfortunately.
philosophically, always start by identifying the application, then pick a cartridge for it, then pick a rifle for it.
Scenario: You're a late-middle-aged guy like me, who has multiple rifles in most of the classic cartridges: .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, 7mm-08, .270 Winchester, .30-06 Springfield, 7mm Remington Magnum, etc. (... this is not intended as an all-inclusive list). You enjoy them all.
A young man in your social circles, say the son of a friend, has expressed interest in shooting. He is late 20's, well educated, well employed, completely out of debt (save for a pending mortgage) so is able to spend some money. He is a bit of a nerd (i.e., likes to ask questions and understand what he is doing) and has shown some interest in reloading, but at this point, his shooting experience is limited to a couple of very satisfying range outings. He is definitely NOT a "tacticool" wannabe; he is intrigued by "long range" accuracy, though hasn't shot past 300, and while hunting is not a priority, it isn't something he is prepared to rule out, either. (Think, maybe, ideal future son-in-law?)
So here's the question: Given the development of a raft of new, efficient, light-recoiling cartridges (6.5mm and 6mm Creedmoor, 224 Valkyrie, etc.) that are already demonstrating their prowess on targets and game, and the introduction of comparatively inexpensive but high quality (quality defined as accurate and durable) rifles ranging from the Ruger American (low end) to the Bergara B14 HMR (high end), what rifle/cartridge combinations might you recommend to this interested young man?
See if you can get beyond what you like personally (hard for me to do, which is why I'm asking the question). If you want to argue for a classic rifle/cartridge combination, do so but please give your reasons. Likewise if you favor more recently introduced options. This is a real question for me. I like my classic cartridges and related wildcats. But if I were starting out today, knowing all I know now, would I go with a classic or adopt the new? I'm not sure. Help me figure it out!
I would recommend the Cm over the 260 for a new shooter and explain why. If they still want a 260, they will learn to reload.If I provide the firearms for a training session, they will definitely be chambered in a classic ... or an Ackley version of a classic.
But say a young man really took a liking to my .260 Remington. Would you recommend he buy one, or one of the new 6.5 Creedmoors? They fill the same niche, and one is gaining in popularity and support and the other is waning. Same question if he really liked one of my .243s; should he purchase a .243, or should I steer him toward a 6 Creedmoor? The latter question is a bit more difficult, of course, because the 6 CM, while growing in popularity, hasn't reached the widespread acceptance that the 6.5 has ... and the .243 is less likely to be fully displaced than the .260.
@nature Boy’s advice on the 308win for the reason he offers isn’t bad advice at all - something to consider. I’d throw the .223rem in the same bucket for the same reason. It lasts forever, and it will make everything else seem easy when you move on.
But I’m conflicted on where I stand on this philosophy - I know there is merit to it, and I have given the same advice many times over the years, but I THINK I’ve moved away from it of late. So this below is how I argue with myself on this topic:
As a shooter, I do agree with a paradigm where your first barrel/rifle is like training wheels, so you want it to last long enough to learn. With a 6 creed or 243win, a guy will likely burn out the barrel before they become really proficient at 600+ yards.
I do wholly support owning a practice 22LR for this reason.
As an instructor, I can’t quite decide on which side of that particular fence I fall - I’m prone to THINK though I’m not on that side:
The bad news about the .308win is the fact it’s not really training wheels - training wheels are supposed to be easier, while the 308 is more difficult than some other cartridges. It recoils more and has more drop and drift at range. The only advantages to starting with a .308 or .223 are economic.
Using the .308win for learning long range is a lot like learning to shoot handguns with a DAO revolver - the manner of thinking is, “it’s harder to master, so once you do, everything else is easy.”
But that doesn’t seem to match with how people actually learn. We learn to crawl, learn to walk, to run, then to roller skate. Starting with a .308win (or DAO revolver) is kinda like starting with running and skipping crawling and walking. We learn to count, then learn addition, then subtraction, then multiplication, then division, then fractions, then algebra, then calculus... We don’t start off with algebra before we can count. Successful training methodologies are built upon progressive skill development.
As an example, I started as a kid on a .44mag revolver, developed a terrible flinch, then finally bought a .22LR and worked out my demons. I should have started on something lesser than a .44mag...
For rifle shooting, the progressive development can be developed by starting at shorter range, then working outward. In that path, .308win almost makes as much or more sense than anything - less the level of recoil. Unfortunately, recoil management and related flinch development is the most common problem for all new shooters, so it’s hard to ignore.
On the “pro side,” I remind myself: Starting with a .223rem or 308win means that first barrel lasts a LONG time, so you’ll never feel like you are wasting barrel life to try something new (new ammo, new technique, new position, etc), or to practice at shorter ranges. I never shoot my 6 creeds without a purpose - kinda like having a cowhorse and never riding it for pleasure, it feels kinda wrong to have a rifle which I don’t let myself shoot for fun.
One other downside to consider, of course, is what ELSE we buy for our first rifle. If the young man takes up reloading and gets 500rnds deep into brass, he has a lot more reinvestment to make if he changes cartridges on the second barrel.
Both ways can and do work, but I do THINK I’m giving up on advising folks to start with DAO’s and 308wins.