Reflex sights - Image quality of aiming dot?

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useful range is around 50 yards for a "pretty close" hit, maybe a bit more.
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What exactly are you referring to?

I've shot 8" steel at 300+ yards with an Aimpoint before at our local rifle matches. Hardly 'pretty close'.

Now, that steel can be bloody hard to see out there after it's been shot a bit and turned grey...

BSW
 
bill rights,the trijicon does no use a led beam.it uses tritium (which is why it doesn't use batteries) i was not aware the op was refering to just to that kind of reflex sight.
 
Take a photo of the dot, I think you will find it remarkably round. The bright point-like light exposes all the defects in the eye. Before I had my astigmatism fixed with Lasik I'd see two dots if the brightness was very high.

You definitely must look thru the dot and focus on the target. Failure to do so results in misses and complaints about them "not holding zero".

I'm very happy with my Burris Fast Fire, since I have to shoot into the sun a good bit of the time the way our range is laid out, but it could be too bright for other conditions.

--wally.
 
sinistr,

You are correct that I was thinking only of electrically powered light sources in my last post (actually in all my posts), answering to you about the triangular dot.

Truth is, several people have been talking about tritium-powered red dots. I have been ignoring them, in the sense that I have not kept a list of which brand of optics has the tritium. So, when you mentioned the triangle dot, I didn't "snap" that it was on a tritium type unit.

I was thinking that your triangle-dot unit was electrically powered. If that were the case (which it's not, for the Trijicon), then there must be some sort of triangular-shaped diffuser (which I was calling a "reticle", but that might be the wrong term) to intercept light from the bright-jaggy electric source and a) give the triangular or circular shape and b) get rid of the "jaggies". It would be the lit-up image of the shaped diffuser (maybe reticle) that would be projected onto the sighting screen.

I am happy to talk about the larger point, however. The glow from a tritium lamp/emitter would not have a super-bright optical hot-spot, like an LED, LD or even a light bulb filament would have. The glow from a tritium source would be uniformly emitted from all through the phosphor slug - of course, the light being used would mostly be coming from near the surface facing the optic path. In fact, the Trijicon probably just uses a triangular-shaped plug of tritium/phosphor, and that gets focused and projected onto the sighting screen. In my (maybe wrong) reticle terminology, the light source and the reticle are one and the same object.

EDIT: Duhhh.... briansmithwins said:
The shaped reticles on a Trijicon Reflex sight are formed by the emitter. If you look at the emitter you'll see a little wee triangle, or chevron, or dot. .... BSW
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This is exactly my content when I said
the Trijicon probably just uses a triangular-shaped plug of tritium/phosphor, and that gets focused and projected onto the sighting screen. In my (maybe wrong) reticle terminology, the light source and the reticle are one and the same object.
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, in which I failed to give credit to BSW for the idea.
 
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I have a pretty bad astigmatism and I am new to reflex sights. I have to admit I am not too happy because they really show how bad the astigmatism is. Makes me like the Millett I put on my FNAR.
 
Wally - RIGHT YOU ARE !!

I took Wally's advice and took a photo of the red dot (Burris Fastfire II) in action, so to speak. The setup of the shot is not any too good (dot not centered, focus depth huh?, etc.) but all the dots in all the photos look the same anyway. Here it is:

Burris_Fastfire_II_dot_appearance1_.jpg
 
As far as accuracy goes, many use red dots for Bullseye. I like my Ultradots.
I suspect as your photos show that the image you see is due to your eyes.
Depending on my eyes, I might get a bunch of grape effect for a dot.
Or a sunspot eruption looking thing.
I have been messing with a quality iron sight 22 lr pistol for grins and it has shown me that my dots are way better then irons for bullseye.
 
I hope this isn't off topic but what's the max. effective range for a sight like this?
Click to expand...

I've made consistent hits out at 600 meters on steel chest plates using an EOTech and an M4 (after some trial and error to figure hold over), with good ammo -- not a chip shot, but not magic (and easier than doing the same with irons, in my opinion).
 
I have never tried for absolute accuracy but I know if I shoot for quick follow up shots a reflex sight is always more accurate for me. I find it easier to put the dot on the target on multiple shots than to line the irons back up. It may not give the tightest groups possible but it certainly is faster getting back onto the targets I am shooting at.
 
OP questions for thread respondants:

earplug,

What is "Bullseye"? Is that a competition style or game?

You mention "Ultradots". Who manufactures these and could you describe them and give price range (for ex., Burris Fastfire is in the $200 range)?

What is "grape effect"? Is it static or changing?

HorseSoldier said:
(after some trial and error to figure hold over)
Click to expand...
What is "hold over", please?
 
HorseSoldier

I've made consistent hits out at 600 meters on steel chest plates using an EOTech and an M4 (after some trial and error to figure hold over),
Click to expand...

Nice shooting!
The 1 MOA center dot in the EOTech reticle does make this easy.
 
Okay I will be the party stopper. The $780 Aim Point that the Army issued me works just as well as the $19 china special sight I bought at Walmart 4 years ago. The target can not tell the difference inside 200 meters. Past 200 meters they both get flaky.

The difference between a $800 magnified scope and $19 Walmart special is huge though.
 
briansmithwins said:
I like the Reflex, but 2 batteries in a modern Aimpoint get you longer life (always on) than the tritium in a Reflex sight. Plus the battery is field replaceable. BSW
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But in the post-nuclear-apocalypse world where such things would matter, batteries will be priceless, while you simply leave your rifle outside once in a while to recharge the rads on the Trijicon.
 
I have EOtechs (and a little astigmatism in my right eye). The dot looked like you describe until I learned to focus on the target, then it's remarkably sharp. You can't focus on the dot like with crosshairs in a traditional sight or it'll explode into a mess like you see. Try it. Focus on a point on a wall and bring the sight up in front of you eye and keep focusing on that point.

The $780 Aim Point that the Army issued me works just as well as the $19 china special sight I bought at Walmart 4 years ago.
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I have a $20 BSA red dot that works more or less as well as a "good" red dot. However if it's subjected to rough use, dropping, smacking on a door frame, etc. I have a feeling the cheapo one would quickly show why it's so cheap. It's fine for a range gun though.
Bill Rights: Here's the Ultradot site: http://www.ultradotusa.com/ I think they are made in China. Last time I checked they were in the $100 range and a good bargain. Much more rugged than the cheap ones, and much less expensive than the major brands.
 
That is an excellent point. I subjected the Aimpoint to all kinds of abuse and to my utter amazement it remained true. Sounds like a $20 experiment is in order.

This is an excellent thread BTW.
 
I love the EOTech. It has an excellent reticle, but heat can sap power from the batteries.

My new favorite red dot is the tiny Aimpoint Micro, mine are T-1s.
At about 3.50 MOA the dot is a little larger than I like, but it's unaffected by heat and the battery life is extra long.

I have a T-1 on my T56SHTF and on one of my MK14s.




.
 
Thanks for reponses and proposed end of thread

Thanks to all Responders.

HERE IS WHAT I LEARNED (I will start another thread to zero in on one more detail):

1) DIRECT BEAM PROJECTION reflex sights, with electric-powered beam (usually LED), can "overwhelm" the light receptor to the eye, or maybe fool the brain's interpretation of it, so many of us see a jagged, irregular starburst or or other mis-shapen "dot" on the aiming screen. This effect is worse in dim ambient lighting conditions.

2) Even with that, the majority report is that reflex sights are at least faster for target acquisition (esp. for second, third, etc. shot) than iron sights and probably also marginally more accurate.

3) "TRITIUM" or other PHOSPHOR reflex sights have a nice, tight, well-shaped dot, but their brightness may get overwhelmed in bright sunlight and they may lose brightness over time (a few days?). But they can be "re-charged" by exposure to bright light. Somewhere I gathered that there are also "fiber optic" reflex sights that gather ambient light to concentrate it to make a dot. I did not get too much detail on that. Somebody else post to this thread or start another if interested - I am, mildly.

4) RETICLE-PROJECTION reflex sights, with electric light source, exist. Apparently. Beyond that, I got not much detail. That will be the topic of my next thread on this general area.

Thanks!

If you did want to continue this thread a bit:

- What colors are available in tritium dots in reflex sights. Ever heard of multiple color choices available in one sight?
 
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bill rights,the trijicon does no use a led beam.it uses tritium (which is why it doesn't use batteries) i was not aware the op was refering to just to that kind of reflex sight.
Click to expand...

Trijicons don't project a beam, the lens is partially mirrored to pick up the reflection (hence reflex) of the triangle. Mechanically they are much simpler than the ones like your Burris. Just two hinges and two beefy adjustment screws. If your picking one for ruggedness, get the Trijicon. Mine is 8 or 9 years old and still works perfectly.

FWIW, the emitter on my Reflex II is triangular. The triangle is very crisp and shrp on the screen. I usee the sharp tip of the triangle for precision aiming. better than open sights, not as precise as a scope, but what do you expect?

Tritium (used in the Trijicon Reflex sights) is a radioactive gas that gives off it own light. It deminishes over a much longer period of time, like decades. The tritium only comes into play in total darkness, otherwise the fiber optics are supplying the light.

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=8

click on the 'more info' button.
 
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One more nice feature to the Trijicon model is the windage and elevation settings are easily adjusted with a coin or cartridge rim. No fusssy allen wrenches or covers to lose.
 
The 3.5- 4.0 minute dots are o.k. out to 300 yards, but beyond that, head shots are going to be iffy, due to covering too much of the target. They are, as stated by others, reflexive (hence the name) for shooting at more immediate combat ranges, say 25-200 yards. Beyond 250, there are better sights, and with QD systems, one can change to a longer range scope if he has the QD setup for that type of scope at hand. Some people hang the Docter or Burris on the SIDE of a tactical weapon for close shots and backup to their glass, long range scopes. The Burris is NOT waterproof, as the expensive Docter is supposed to be, and this is where "you get what you pay for" comes in. Some tac scopes are waterproof. The red dot can be a little fuzzy..."forget about it!". It still works fine, gets tight groups (if you aim in the same place each time), and gets on target as fast or faster than most everything else.
 
I have a mini red-dot from Tactical Night Vision mounted on a LaRue qd that has the photo sensor on the front like yours. Mine adjusts just fine, so you might have an issue with yours. Try covering the sensor hole with a finger or something and see if it gets lighter, remove your finger and it should get brighter. If it isn't adjusting, I'd send it back. TNV sells theirs for $139 the last time I checked.
 
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