Refurbished Glock? Or just used Police gun?

[karz10]

Hey,

I appreciate others' help in giving me feedback about various guns, including a Glock 19. I was debating buying new, which I originally intended, or some have shown me a link to a CDNN catalogue to buy used. I've looked at some 19s, as described below, new vs used, but then ran into a 'refurbished' piece, and I have doubts that it's refurbished, but how can I tell for sure...?

Say for example, for a 19 w/ Night Sights:

Used price $399 + SH $15 allegeldy + FFL $25 = $440 ish (1 mag only, not sure about tax)

New price $560 + tax, whether I buy it from Bud's at $515 + $20 SH + $25 FFL, or buy from a Pawn Shop NIB where he orders it, charges me 10% markup over the posted price in a 'JSC' catalog, or the lowest price I could get w/ that leverage from an FFL who's main business is training, or another gun store that was too far to warrant driving there, but told me over the phone he'd do it.

I already got a card of a CCW trainer who charges $90 per person, but saw an online link from a trainer association site, for a dealer/trainer, which charged $75 for his class, or $120 per couple, which piqued my interest.

So, the FFL/Trainer, which I contacted about the CCW training I would need anyway, says he has a refurbished Glock 19 w/ night sights (looked like newer model w/ finger grips) for $489 (since he's local, no FFL fee etc.) So, I went and looked at it tonight...

I'm no expert, but I saw a fair amount of residue around the chamber, on the barrel, where the slide exposes the barrel/chamber, if I'm explaining that right (sorry if I'm not). Then, when you look at the magazine, it seems to have significant wear marks in the plastic area that cups the bullet, and I notice a lot of (for a detailed eye) gunk inside the front night sight (like the kind of gunk you get in the nook and cranny's of your 2-4 year old cell phone). Gun seemed to operate properly, but not at a range at the time to shoot it. I asked him who does the refurbishing, and he says he has a few 'sources' for these kinds of guns.

Then I notice that he has a case w/ the gun, and the case has a sticker on the front which says something to the affect of 'Law Enforcement Sale Only' and the serial number on the sticker matches the serial number on the slide. So, I ask him if there's anything special about the gun that would have only been available on it as a LE weapon originally, and he said it was just sold when the ban on high cap mags was in place.

So, I'm thinking, dirty, signs of wear on some parts, original box matching serial number still in place on gun, w/ matching sticker indicating it was a LE weapon, what are the chances this was refurbished? Don't they clean things when they refurbish them? Don't they replace cheap parts like the plastic cup in the mag? If this went through a refurb, what are the chances it would still be matched w/ the case saying for LE sale only, w/out that sticker getting ripped off, or switched w/ diff box etc.?

When did the finger grips come out vs the end of the high cap mag ban? Does anyone even sell refurbished Glocks on a wide scale anymore? A quick search only turned up a few flat gripped ones on closed bid at gunbroker or ebay, and some old 2001-2002 posts in various forums.

More importantly, am I being too paranoid, or was this guy clearly trying to sell me a used gun as a refurb? I don't care about the gun persay, I can still buy the CDNN or buy new, I'm just wondering if I should deal with this guy, either to order the NIB gun, or take his training class, etc., and I'm just trying to further educate myself.

Thanks for any answers to these questions!

Karz

 

[karz10]

No thoughts?

K

 

[DogBonz]

I know that with Sig

Factory refurbished guns usually have a sticker on the box that says Factory Refurbished and the date that it was worked on. And yes, they clean them.

 

[allen268]

I wouldn’t consider it a referb unless it was clearly advertised as such, cant speak for Glock but Sig makes it clear by using marking tape on the grip and a red box for referbs vs. the normal blue box for new. There should be no question as to whether it’s refurbished or not when you buy it.

 

[Shipwreck]

Yes, the refurbs are AUTHORIZED and marked as such.

 

[thales]

*


I don't know about you, but I'm starting to develop a certain dislike for this FFL trainer guy, and I'm 4000 miles away.


*

 

[MD_Willington]

Arent glock refurbs usually called "FGR rebuilds"

 

[CWL]

True Glock armory refurbs should be completely clean since they would refinish the guns to remove holster wear & minor scratches. Worn parts are replaced.

What you are describing sounds like a used gun that was was not well-cared for.

 

[longeyes]

I bought a Glock 17 that was a "factory refurb" and marked as such. This was a first-gen pistol, by the way, and might as well have looked brand-new. It's functioned perfectly through about one thousand rounds. I'd buy another--if it were rehab'd by Glock itself.

 

[aaronrkelly]

After reading your description of the weapon it doesnt sound like a "refurb" so much as a used gun.

He may be an armorer and he may have went thru the gun and replaced some springs.....but thats NOT the same thing as a Glock refurb.

But.....I wouldnt hesitate to buy the gun. Dicker on the price. Print out the CDNN page where they are selling brand new G19s with night sights and 2 hi caps for $439. Show that to him and ask him to adjust his price.

Seems the gun may be worth about $400ish.....hes high.

Maybe call CDNN and see if they have any of those new G19s left....when I got mine about two weeks ago they had 7 left.

 

[karz10]

aaronrkelly: ...Dicker on the price. Print out the CDNN page where they are selling brand new G19s with night sights and 2 hi caps for $439. Show that to him and ask him to adjust his price.

Thanks for the tip. I actually went in there when I looked at it w/ a small file folder in hand. After I looked at the gun, I told him I appreciated the offer, and was interested in purchasing a pistol like that, but had some concerns about buying new vs used, and that if the price separation was big enough between new and used, then it would make more sense.

I showed him how much I could get a new one for locally (print-outs), and how much I could order either the 'new' or used on from CDNN for (w/ the page 12 of that catalog). Then he didn't think I could order that, but I explained how I could in fact order that, he took out a sheet of paper and started adding shipping, transfer fees, and some other percentage, but I stopped him and showed him what the fees would actually be, and that on the $399 gun I would be at $440 OTD, to which he replied he couldn't go anywhere near that.

So, I said, well I'm gonna hold off then, and left...

Those 'new' $439s are gone already, I called about them the other day, but the $399 used ones are still there, being my first pistol purchase, I'm a little concerned about sight-unseen w/ no refund policy, I don't know...

Thanks for thinking about it for me...

Karz

 

[rellascout]

I would call Ordance Outsellers http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/index.htm

NIB Glock 19 is $480

CDNN guns are fine but they can be hit or miss. You will get one that is like new the next one is very good. Both were marked excellent in the catalog. The one good thing is if the ysell you a lemon they will make it right. They will replace defective pistols but will not exchange them if there is more wear than you expected. If you are picky, and who isn't by NIB or local.

 

[karz10]

rellascout: ...NIB Glock 19 is $480

Thanks for the tip. In looking at their store, main pg does say $480, on the GLock page, it even says $470, but added to that a min. of $60 for NS, assume conservative $20 for shipping, and $25 FFL, I'm at $575, compared to other various angles locally or shipping ranging from $569 no tax, to $560 + tax, so it's in the ball park, but not yet compelling me one way or another...

If you are picky, and who isn't by NIB or local.

Yeah, I guess I am a little picky, my problem is that I'm frugal and picky :banghead:

I guess I'll sit tight and see if any good deals come along. I wanted to go to a couple shows coming here over the next couple weeks, just to look at stuff, maybe I'll get lucky there and find someone who wants to make a deal, or maybe I'll come to terms w/ the risks of buying used online, etc...

Thanks for the responses.

Karz

 

[aaronrkelly]

Those 'new' $439s are gone already, I called about them the other day, but the $399 used ones are still there, being my first pistol purchase, I'm a little concerned about sight-unseen w/ no refund policy, I don't know...

CDNN will take the gun back if your not happy.....but I believe you have to pay the shipping.

I have ordered SEVERAL guns from CDNN.....they are an honest outfit.

And it is a Glock.....Glock is about the only gun I will be sight unseen. There arent that many parts, they are almost reliable to a fault.....you just dont get many bad Glocks.

But everyone has to draw the line somewhere....with the exception of 1, all the gun I have ever bought used turned out to be great.

 

[rellascout]

The other thing is that the guys at CDNN work on commission. I always delt with the same guy. IF you establish a relationship with them they will help you out.

 

[JohnKSa]

Post the guy's name. He's trying to rip you off.

I asked him who does the refurbishing, and he says he has a few 'sources' for these kinds of guns.

Yeah, right... I'd never do business with him again.

 

[karz10]

Well, I was going to sit tight for awhile, despite being anxious to have at least one pistol in the house. Along my research path, I ran across the HomeLand Defender package for the G19, but it was $689 + S&H + FFL across the state line, or $699+tax locally, and I saw ImpactGuns had it for $635 + S&H + FFL, so it wasn't quite sweet enough for me...


http://www.impactguns.com/store/764503151934.html

Then today, I just noticed the above deal from Impact Guns, looks like it's on sale about $30 below previous price the last few weeks.

$603 (plus shipping)
The Glock 19 9mm
Trijicon Night Sights
Glock Tac Light
4 High Capacity Magazines
Extended Mag Release
Extended Slide Release

I know the Glock tac light isn't the best by many opinions compared to some of the other brands, but I do like the NS, the exra mags, and the extended slide release,

I could go either way on the extended mag release, and while I'd rather have one of the other surefire or streamlight lights, I haven't decided whether I'd want one w/ the integrated laser, or go for one of those laser grips, and I don't think I could jump on the more expensive ones w/ the laser right out of the gate, so I was thinking that this might be the best way to get most of what I wanted, and get it new. W/out spending too much on the light, I'd get a chance to use and practice with one, and have a better idea what I would want in the future.

And like they say, these things are like potato chips from what I hear, you can't have just one, so as I add to the collection, I can put the better set-up on whichever one is primary, and migrate the glock light to the secondary, or keep as a backup etc.

Since no tax, incl shipping and FFL, I'd be about $650 out the door for all of the above.

Same set up would cost $740 OTD after tax etc locally. Or buying in pieces, the best deal I found for 19 w/ night sites was probably $575 OTD after all was said and done, or around $590 for trijicon NS instead of Glock NS, by the time you add the extra mags, ext slide release, and the less expensive glock light, it's well over $700 too, so while this may not be the deal of the century, for a new glock w/ all those features, it's not bad, IMO. Considering I saw a guy at a local dealer walk out w/ a NIB (FS only, no upgrades) for $645 OTD ($599 + state/city taxes), compared to him this would be the deal of the year at least

If I bought one of the 'new test-fired' CDNN for $439, which are gone, paid $15+ S&H, $25 FFL, that would be around $479, let's say incl shipping get a decent price of $40 for two mags, and $30 for the extended controls, that would bring it up to around $549, then figure $80-$120 for any of the entry level lights, and I'm back in that $650 ballpark, so if someone like me wouldn't mind, or wants the extra stuff, maybe it's an ok deal, eh?

I also noticed they had the 33rd (Glock mfg, I assume 31+2 ext, waiting for response from customer service to confirm) for $25, which isn't a bad price, I see most places selling them for $30ish, and they combine the shipping when buying 2, making it around $30 OTD inc shipping, etc... www.impactguns.com/store/764503171338.html

Karz

 

[JimmyN]

Here's what a GLOCK rebuild will look like.
http://www.summitgunbroker.com/1407263.html

 

[karz10]

Here's what a GLOCK rebuild will look like.
http://www.summitgunbroker.com/1407263.html

Hey, thanks. I just found that yesterday. I had already contacted him before about the new guns, but adding NS and other stuff the price got less attractive in my situation, new.

It looks like he's out of 19s now, otherwise that looks like a decent deal, and I can see the difference in pictures and words as to what the refurb *should* have looked like.

Thanks again!

Karz

 

[gezzer]

Buy a new gun, you are fussy and that is all that will really satisfy you. One cannot be fussy and cheap at the same time. A used gun will never seem good to you.

A new Model 19 at $525+ is a bit high I am a dealer and 500 is my shop price.

 

[karz10]

One cannot be fussy and cheap at the same time. A used gun will never seem good to you.

Hi Gezzer,

I know, I was joking about being picky and cheap, I know you have to draw the line somewhere. But I do usually find good deals (on unrelated purchases) when I take the time to look for them, or at least educate myself to the point where I get a reasonable deal when I don't want to wait too long.

I think a used gun could seem ok to me, but not going down the road before, I just have concerns, and hear mixed reviews of the process, and providers of online used purchases. If I was willing to risk the $40 in round trip shipping to send something back if I didn't like it, or if I was a little more knowledgeable in reviewing something in person before buying, or happened across a really obviously clean used or refurbished gun at a good price, then I would probably pull the trigger on it, pardon the pun.

But maybe I'll buy one new, so I'll have one, become a more educated consumer, and then take my time looking for good used ones to bring into the family later on.

A new Model 19 at $525+ is a bit high I am a dealer and 500 is my shop price.

What do you mean exaclty, for FS, NS, or other config? I'm not sure what/who's price you're referring to. I think I was focusing on NS NIB vs used/refurbed, but I know that NIB std sites (FS) were available for $459 on some sites + shipping (in most cases) and of course plus FFL, or the going rate for local dealers *should* be $475-$500 (although some of my local dealers are asking $550ish, I even saw a guy buy one as mentioned above for $599 sd FS only, crazy).

Then I mentioned that G19s w/ night sights new started as low as $515 online, but after shipping and FFL, or buying locally, ended up being between $560-$590 depending on whether tax was applied, and whether they were trijicon, glock, or other brand night sights.

Then I was talking about the HomeLand defender option, w/ Trijicon NS, extended controls, 4 hi-cap mags, and a glock light for $603+SH+FFL from an online dealer.

Anyway, I just wasn't sure what config you were referring to or where a $525 price point was referenced.

Thanks for your post, I appreciate it.

Karz

 

[RyanM]

Prices in your area are ridiculous. The store here, it's $500 plus tax new, or $400 plus tax used. Despite the fact that they're the only store within a 30 minute drive, other than a tiny little one room place.

Anyway, I'd recommend getting new, unless you can find a really good deal on a used third generation Glock 19. There have been all kinds of parts upgrades and changes and stuff (especially to the magazine followers, firing pin, and firing pin safety), and if it were me and I bought an old 1st or 2nd generation gun, I wouldn't be happy until I sent it in to Glock to be upgraded. The 3rd generation guns should be up to date.