Registration of undocumented guns in NYS

[SleazyRider]

I live in New York State, where it's a crime to possess an unregistered handgun. Please accept the fact that neither the law nor my state of residency is likely to change; so posts that either bash NYS or suggest that I move elsewhere are unhelpful. Thank you in advance for understanding this.

NYS law notwithstanding, there are countless unregistered handguns in the state, many of which are family hand-me-downs, relics of a war, or acquired prior to the registration requirement. The bottom line is that to legally possess grandpa's old Model 10, it must be registered and recorded on one's permit; and those of us who want to remain within the law may want to register their gun but can't. Here's why: proof of ownership/origin must be submitted with one's application, be it a bill-of-sale, receipt, or executor's statement. Oftentimes this proof is unavailable, so the guns remain unregistered, and if stolen and/or used in the commission of a crime, cannot be traced, which is the very opposite of the law's intent.

What do you think of this idea: A one-year moratorium on the documentation requirement to register a gun in NYS, when proof of ownership would not have to be submitted to one's county government to register a gun. It would cost zero tax dollars since there's already a fee in place for the registration process, and would be far more effective than the ineffective and silly COBIS requirements now on the books. At the very least, it would afford many gun owners in NYS the option to legally possess, and therefore enjoy, their currently unregistered firearms; or continue to keep them unlawfully squirreled away in the gun safe. Understand that if the latter is chosen, the gun can never be legally used or liquidated, and the conundrum would eventually be passed along to one's heirs.

Good idea or not? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

[mbopp]

I had a friend in NY that got his dad's war trophy Luger put on his permit years ago. IIRR he had to turn it in to the local police, have his dad sign an affidavit on how he got it, and wait for the background check to see if it was stolen. But it is legally on his permit now.

And yes, Cobis is a joke. $40 million and NO results. So what do they do? - propose microstamping! That's one reason I bought my Springer now.

 

[hermannr]

MY FIL (long dead now) inherited a very nice 1926 Colt Officers Model 38. Along with the papers of the original owner (permit to carry in NYC) and gave it to me just before I left for Vietnam.

I never could figure out why he did not give that Colt to one of his sons, instead of me, just a SIL, until I learned some of NYS firearms laws...He wanted that pistol out of the state, that is why.

My suggestion is to vote in a different gang into Albany.

 

[SleazyRider]

The dilemma is how to create a "paper trail" for a firearm when one does not exist, even though it is legitimately owned but simply not registered. I'd be loathe to hand in a WW2 Luger to the state police and keep my fingers crossed that it would be returned to me.

It just seems to me that if state can sponsor so-called "buy-backs" of weapons with no questions asked, they can certainly provide an amnesty program for folks who want to comply with the law by registering their firearms.

 

[mortablunt]

How many cases has the registry solved exactly?

 

[Frank Ettin]

FWIW, IMHO an amnesty period would be a good idea. But would it fly in Albany?

Amnesty programs in many contexts have been operated in many places in the past, so the idea is not without precedent. It would, however, require legislation. So (1) are the politics such that some kind of amnesty legislation might be adopted; (2) what would it be likely to cost in the way of political capital; and (3) would some NYS RKBA organization that has some clout be willing to press the matter?

As an option:

[1] There are often legal procedures available whereby one can solidify a claim of legal ownership of something, even in the absence of normal ownership documents. (I have no idea how one would go about this in NYS. That would be a question for a qualified NY lawyer.)

[2] I'm sure the help of a lawyer would be needed, at least to manage something like this efficiently.

[3] Perhaps a NYS RKBA organization could help encourage one or more "gun law savvy" NY lawyers to start a program to assist gun owners who would like to do this.

[4] Sometimes these kinds of things, once the foundation in laid and form documents developed, can be processed in a routine, almost assembly-line, manner with minimal lawyer time and expense.

[5] I have no idea if something like that can work in NYS, but it might be worth exploring.

 

[Zundfolge]

An amnesty assumes that there is political will in Albany to do so. I don't live there so I have no idea how possible that would be. My guess is you'll have as much luck getting the registration requirement permanently removed (at least outside NYC) as you would in getting an amnesty, but again, I don't live there so I don't know the political climate.

What would happen if you were to ship the gun to a friend's FFL in a free state (I'm assuming you don't have to show UPS your gun registration paperwork) and then they ship the gun back to you via a local FFL in New York thus creating the proper paper trail (as though you purchased the gun from out of state). I guess considering the gun is off paper now you could just drive it to a friend in a free state and have them ship it back to your FFL but I'm trying to come up with an idea that doesn't violate any more laws than necessary (and transferring handguns across state lines without going through an FFL is a violation of federal law).

While this might not be 110% legal, neither is simply possessing the illegal gun in the first place (the only truly legal course of action for you right now would be to turn the gun over to the police for destruction)

 

[SleazyRider]

How many cases has the registry solved exactly?

Good question. I have no idea, but I suppose one could argue that an unregistered gun won't solve any crimes at all, and the more registered guns there are, the more likely it is that the registration data would be useful. Personally, it seems to me that unless the gun is stolen, a registered gun isn't likely to be used in the commission of a crime no more than one would use their lawfully registered car to rob a bank. But regardless of how I feel about it, fact is that gun registration in New York State is here to stay.

 

[SleazyRider]

An amnesty assumes that there is political will in Albany to do so. I don't live there so I have no idea how possible that would be. My guess is you'll have as much luck getting the registration requirement permanently removed (at least outside NYC) as you would in getting an amnesty, but again, I don't live there so I don't know the political climate.

Sex scandals aside, I'm assuming most of the lawmakers in New York want to do the right thing. Cynical as I am, to think otherwise would be to give up entirely, which I am not yet willing to do.

Interesting idea you propose, sort of a "gun laundering" scheme. How strange it is that to obey the law, one would have to break the law. There's got to be an easier way!

 

[Ole Coot]

I would be in a world of hurt in NY. I may have 4 or 5 "registered" all others were purchased back in the good ole days, private purchases inherited, trades and just about any way you can think of. I wouldn't know how to even remember where I picked up some or who I got them from. I guess I am "grandfathered" into ownership by now. I even have a couple I won on a tipboard, twice illegal. I may need an attorney.

 

[SleazyRider]

FWIW, IMHO an amnesty period would be a good idea. But would it fly in Albany? ...
... I have no idea if something like that can work in NYS, but it might be worth exploring.

I've proposed it to several members of the NYS Assembly and Senate, but I'm not holding my breath. On a positive note, the 10-year-old COBIS program---the one that has cost millions of taxpayer dollars without netting any benefit---is being reconsidered in Albany. So there is some hope that our legislators might do something right.

 

[towboat_er]

NY sure sucks.

 

[elano]

Yep NYC does indeed.

 

[bigfatdave]

if the state is unable to detect the unregistered guns now, why would anyone bother registering them in the future?

 

[Dr_B]

I'm glad I live in Idaho. I can walk into a store and say. "I think I'll buy a handgun today." A few moments later, I can walk out with the gun and some ammo. As much ammo as I want to buy. I don't have to register the gun either.

Not bashing New York state. But I think it's wrong that anyone has to register their firearms.

 

[General Geoff]

But regardless of how I feel about it, fact is that gun registration in New York State is here to stay.

It is with that attitude. Work to repeal the gun registration laws.

 

[ZCORR Jay]

As long as NYC is part of NY State it will be a ridiculous uphill battle to have any sort of registration removed. I'm not saying NYC is a bad place or we shouldn't work to repeal registration requirements in our state but in regards to the OP... as long as we have people like Schumer and Bloomberg you'll never see anything like the one year moratorium that you proposed as these guys want every firearm to be illegal.

 

[crossrhodes]

Good Idea OP

You have a good idea with common sense but. Your talking about a state that has a city that banned Dura Coat because it's firearm related. It's a scary state of affairs when it comes to NY and firearm laws, so scary that our shop will not do any type of business with NY residents except maybe sell them some cleaning gear. I'm not happy about it and it does cause some heart burn. NY Trooper was here for deer season and got really upset because we refused to sell ammo to him because he was from NY. It's not a way we like to do business but we have to protect our business too.
Good luck with the folks in Albany.

 

[AirForceShooter]

I lived in NYS and NYC for decades.
I had those hand me downs.

Why in God's name would I ever register them?
NY knew too much about me anyway.

AFS

 

[JohnD13]

I have done this a couple of times now, both with family pieces that turned up after the funerals. Call the local NYS trooper barrack and let them know that you have the guns, and the circumstances that have put them in your hands. Tell them you would like to put them on your permit, but want them in the Troopers hands until you can do that. They will either come to your place and pick them up and provide a reciept for the guns, or ask you to bring them to the barracks. Either way, get a reciept. The troopers will run a check to see if the guns are listed as stolen. In one case I had to have a lawyer draw up a request to the county judge to turn the firearm over to me. That cost $75., not bad for a US&S 1911A1.
Good luck.

 

[whalerman]

It does seem we return to the NY bashing a lot. I know I do. But is serves a good purpose. It reminds you guys in free states of what can happen if you take things for granted. Here in NY, we did.