Reliability - current production Kahr PM9 or PM40 - opinions?

[StewartG]

I have the opportunity to obtain one of the Kahr PM series weapons from the very latest production run, and I'm trying to decide between the PM9 and the PM40.

My single most important factor in this decision is reliability. I need a pistol that will go bang and cycle properly 100% of the time.

Having searched and reasearch GT and other forums, here is what I've come up with so far. Early PM9s had some troubles, but from what I can tell, the PM9s produced lately seem to have all the bugs worked out. My perception is that a current production model PM9 will be very close to 100% reliable out of the box (even during the 200 - 300 round break in period).

The PM40, on the other hand, is having a lot of "growing pains." It seems that there are a LOT of unhappy PM40 owners and problems like failure to return to battery are rampant. On the other hand, I've heard that very recent production runs on the PM40 (past several months) are getting close to being problem free. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Has anyone out there purchased a very recent production run PM40 and been really happy with it? Does ANYONE own a PM40 that is truly 100% reliable using a variety of ammunition?

All things being equal, I would rather have a PM40 for the extra firepower, but ONLY if I can be assured that the most recent production runs of the PM40 have QC and reliability equal to what Kahr seems to acheived on the PM9.

I would love to hear from you folks out there on this topic - especially from anyone who has purchased a new PM40 in the last couple of months!!!

Thanks in advance -

StewartG

 

[wardog]

I bought a PM9 earlier this year, February I think. I like the size of the PM9 and liked the one more round capacity than the .40. I also felt that controllability would be much better with the 9mm than with the .40. The thing is a handful to control in rapid fire even in 9mm (with the flush fit concealment magazine in place) so I think I made the right choice in caliber. I thought I had waited long enough for the bugs to be worked out and ordered one.

I picked it up and took it to the range. Many failures of the slide going completely into battery. Seemed to get a little better, then started getting much worse. Sent it back to Kahr. They claimed they replaced the recoil spring and polished a few things. Tried it again and it worked a little better, but not perfect. Even after I got it back it just didn't seem like the recoil spring was strong enough. I racked the slide many times to try to break it in and noticed something. When the pistol was clean and oiled the slide would completely close no matter how slowly you let it go forward, (although very weakly) but after 50-100 rounds if you let the slide go forward very slowly it would get to about 1/4" from completely closing and stop. This would happen whether the gun was loaded or unloaded, with the problem being worse when the gun was loaded.

So, I sent it back to Kahr again. I had it back in a month or so. This time they said the barrel was "mushrooming" and replaced it. Tried racking the slide and letting it go forward slowly. This time it closed with authority. The spring seemed much stronger. Took it to the range and tested it. Worked great.

So I'm glad it's working great now, but dissapointed that I had to send it back twice. My Kel Tec P3AT for $218 worked 100% from the start (although I did do the recommended "fluf n' buff" before firing) and my $600 (Black Diamond/night sighted) Kahr had to go back to the factory twice.

If I had to do it all over again I'd probably spend a couple hundred more and get the Rohrbaugh. I wish HK or Sig made a pocket 9 or .40 in this size.

Edit: Oh, hey, welcome to THR!

 

[wally]

I got a PM40 about a ten months ago. Zero problems, even during the recommended 200 round break in. I carry it a lot more than I shoot it since I have an MK40 to practice with, but 300+ rounds and zero problems, I'm confident it in.

--wally.

 

[Lancel]

No problems from my blackened stainless Kahr PM9 after feeding and firing 350 rounds of various types and brands with both proper and no maintenance.

Function and finish are superb. I'm so pleased with it that it earned the position of constant companion.

Larry

 

[Sistema1927]

I purchased a new PM9 earlier this year.

Zero defects.

No problems during the 200 round break-in, and I tried various types of ammo, and even limp wristed, off handed, etc. I couldn't get it to fail.

I sent the barrel back for the "recall", and then ran another 200 rounds through it with the same routine and the same results. At the same time I had Kahr install a set of Meprolights.

I have about 750 rounds through it so far. It is in my pocket in a Desantis Nemesis every day. I field strip it, wipe off all lube, and re-lube once per week with FP10. I carry 7 rounds of 147 Ranger SXT in the pistol with another 7 rounds in the extended mag in the offside pocket in a leather Eze-Lap sharpening stone sheath.

I have an AKJ Concealco IWB and a Safariland double mag pouch for when I know that I won't be removing a jacket, but most of the time pocket carry is preferred. The Glock 26 almost never comes out of the gunsafe any more.

I am happy.

 

[StewartG]

Gentlemen:

Thank you all for the replies!

Its interesting to note that I hear from a lot more satisfied PM9 owners than satisfied PM40 owners. Is this because of a relative lack of satisfaction with the PM40, or due to my guess that Kahr sells many more PM9s than PM40s?

I've had the opportunity to shoot the PM40 in "single shot mode" (failure to return to battery), and although the recoil was a bit stout, it wasn't THAT much more than from my Glock 22. Seemed to be a nice shooter, and I think I would be okay with it ***IF*** it were 100% reliable.

I do hate having to send stuff back to the factory for service, but when it comes to customer service I will say that Kahr is the best in the business...

Sooo...

Anyone else happy or unhappy with their PM40?

StewartG

 

[erikd65]

Good thread. I am considering ordering a PM9 or P9 myself. I assume they have all the bugs worked out by now. I think the PM9 is the small concelaed pistol to have now. I like the Rohrbaugh as well, but it has some drawbacks... not +p rated, mag release is not on the slide, and it is EXPENSIVE , so the PM9 is it. I may end up ordering mine today... still trying to decide if I should hold out for two weeks for the next gun show or just order the damn thing and get it over with

 

[Zach S]

I havent had any problems out of my PM9, but I dont shoot it as often (or as well) as my 1911s, despite it being very accurate. I think those single-action triggers have me spoiled...

Oh, what's this bbl "recall" that was mentioned?

 

[dkochan]

My Kahr PM9 has been 100% reliable. I find it to be very accurate and fast shooting. I prefer carrying the PM9 because the slide locks back, it has better sights and can handle +P ammo. However, the Rohrbaugh is easier to conceal (especially in a pocket) because it has more rounded and smoother edges.

 

[Goodshot]

I've had my PM40 for 9 months and put several hundred rounds thru it. After about 20 rounds the mag release wouldn't hold the mag in. I called Kahr and they sent me an upgraded mag release and I changed it out. It's been flawless ever since. I had trouble with the slide returning to battery and the gunsmith asked if I was using grease on the rails ? Yup I was! He said to use oil, which I do now. It's run everything I have put through it without a hitch.
I trust it 100%.

 

[StewartG]

I think I'm going to go with the PM9... Reasons?

1. Seems to have better reliability track record;

2. One more round in the magazine;

3. Looking at the Winchester web site, I noticed that the 127g Ranger Talon had 40 ftlbs more energy than either of the Ranger Talon .40 rounds!!!

Never owned a 9mm in my life, always shot .40. Its gonna be nice getting cheap ammo!

StewartG

 

[wardog]

For 9mm ammo, check out the prices for CCI Blazer at Natchez.
http://www.natchezss.com/

I've ordered a bunch from them. No complaints.

 

[mcrik]

Hello, I'm new here but very familiar with a Kahr pm40. I purchased a PM40 last year and found it to be about 98% reliable.....not good enough to carry. I contacted Kahr and received various repair parts that did not improve upon the problem. I returned the pistol to Kahr and found it to be LESS reliable after the turn-around. Back to the factory again. While in Kahr's care, the pistol was LOST for 3 months. When asked how this could happen, my Kahr service rep. told me that "the FFL that I entrusted to ship it" had kept the gun for the segment of time in question. (which was a lie..I shipped it myself!!) After the second return the gun was far worse! Back to the Kahr factory again...I now have received a replacement after a year of aggravation. This gun ran through 100 rounds of WW 165gr FMJ with only 1 minor problem. I then tried FED 155 HP Classic. It will not chamber the first round without "help". It is totally unreliable with this ammo. I havn't tried another HP yet but I'll keep you posted.

mcrik

 

[dkochan]

It will not chamber the first round without "help". It is totally unreliable with this ammo.

Lock back the slide before chambering the 1st round. I load all my Kahrs this way without a problem.

 

[pstmstr]

pm9 reliability

My PM9 is having return to battery problems. Kahr is sending me new magazine followers which is supposed to help. We'll see. It has 300 rds thru it so far, most of them in the "single shot" mode. My 642 is riding in my pocket until if and when the Kahr can be trusted.

 

[dj69]

PM9 problems

I don't know about the PM40, but I recently purchased a PM9 that has been totally unrelaible. I put 700 rounds through it in the first 2 weeks. Over 50 jams in the first 500 rounds most of them a failure to feed. I would have to constantly push the slide forward. Also the magazines will not drop free and you can not load the gun by racking the slide. Most of the time even using the slide stop it would not feed properly. I really like the size of this gun and it seems well made. I have sent it back to Kahr along with my P45 that the frame cracked. As a Glock and 1911 shooter I'm not used to having to send my guns back 2 weeks after purchasing them. However, I'll wait and see how Kahr treats me before I judge them too harshly.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

 

[David]

I'm also thinking of buying a new PM9.

What PM9 serial number range would indicate its most current production run?



Thanks.

 

[David]

*** double post -- deleted ***

 

[ezypikns]

I was so disappointed with my PM9.......

after my first time at the range. Nothing but one FTF after another. I sent an email to Kahr asking for advice and was told that the pistol required a 200 rd break in period. Much to my surprise they were right. I've got about 1000 rds thru it now and I'm very confident of it. Of course, I shoot 50 to 100 rds a week with a good cleaning after every session at the range. It's now my carry weapon (DeSantis Nemesis N38 pocket holster).
This pistol is amazingly accurate for its size. I'd also suggest getting the Pearce grip extensions for the 6 rd mags. They really make the weapon more controllable.

 

[bosngt]

PM40 Slide Lock

I've got a new PM40 with 500+ rounds of ball and JHP through it. Only problem in the beginning was 15 or so failures to go into battery (by a 1/4") and a snapped magazine follower. Kahr prompty replaced the follower and the battery problems tapered off to essentially zero as more and more rounds were put through it. A new problem developed during the last 150 rounds: the magazine locked to the rear after the first shot on 4 occasions with Eagle and Blazer 155 ball. I'm very sure it's not my thumb causing this to happen. Does anybody know what would cause this?? I'm stumped.

Regarding accuracy - This is a well made, very accurate sub-compact pistol. I'm able to hold 6" - 8" groups at 15 yards and there is no question that this pistol is an appropriate choice for CCW. It's light and very comfortable; a wise choice for hot weather carry.

 

[Manedwolf]

I picked it up and took it to the range. Many failures of the slide going completely into battery. Seemed to get a little better, then started getting much worse. Sent it back to Kahr. They claimed they replaced the recoil spring and polished a few things.

I don't know about the PM40, but I recently purchased a PM9 that has been totally unrelaible. I put 700 rounds through it in the first 2 weeks. Over 50 jams in the first 500 rounds most of them a failure to feed. I would have to constantly push the slide forward.

This was why I was gonna get a PM9, gonna get a PM9, about to get one...and then I saw a lot of stuff like this. Who can tell what lot you're going to get if you order from an online dealer?

Since it was going to be a primary CCW weapon, I ended up with a Taurus Millenium Pro PT745 instead.

Unfortunately, even the possibility of a "click" and not a "bang" (or an outright jam) is something that would make me very uncomfortable.

Kahr reallyreallyreally needs to make their stuff work better right from the start, or I think they risk being upstaged by alll the other small pistols coming out and become one of a long line of "rising star that burnt out" gun manufacturers. It's a shame, because I really liked the idea!

 

[bosngt]

>Kahr reallyreallyreally needs to make their stuff work better right from the start, or I think they risk being upstaged by alll the other small pistols coming out and become one of a long line of "rising star that burnt out" gun manufacturers. It's a shame, because I really liked the idea!

No chance of that happening, IMHO. Overall, Kahr sub-compact pistols are extremely reliable and reputable. There are no other semi-automatic pistols in the same class of size, weight and bore, like the PM40, for example.

 

[ede]

i bought a PM40 last summer and have no problems in 500+ round, my wife bought one in december last year and only has about 100 rounds in hers with no problems.

 

[halfacop]

I have a PM9 I carry for back up while on duty. It has not had alot of ammo run through it but it has been reliable everytime I have shot it. I have noticed that unless you rack the slide like an angry god, while loading the 1st round, it will not go into battery completely. However - once she is loaded she is a smoooooooooth runner.

Half

 

[dmallind]

One more datum for the zero defects crowd here. Not a huge part of my shooting is using this one - it's entirely a carry piece - but 5-600 rounds flawless including quite a lot of +P Gold Dots and some Blazer aluminum at the other end of the scale. 100% from the get go with both.