Reload data 30-30 cast bullets

[lonewolf5347]

I like to ask any one have any reloading data for the 30-30 cast bullet BHN 10
150 grain for the marlin rifle.
I have on hand
IMR 3031
IMR 4895
I would like to keep the fps to around 1500

 

[Steve C]

Your IMR rifle powders are too slow to load at 1,500 or under FPS. You need to use one of the shotgun/handgun powders to do that.

 

[lonewolf5347]

wow: thank you

 

[243winxb]

Note that the above bullet requires a gas check for the top loadings. Using the starting loads with a plain base bullet may work?? But i think not with a 10 bhn ?? Lyman #2 is abut 15 bhn. The 30-30 is a cartridge that can get very close to 170 gr jacketed bullets velocity using gas checked hard lead bullets of the same weight or heavier. Using a T/C Contender 10" barrel with IMR 4895 - 27.5 gr- 173 gr gas checked, gave 1500 fps. I didnt check velocity in the Win 94, but it should be higher with more barrel length. Use a Lyman "M" die to open the case mouth for bullet seating. Bullet diameter of .310" after sizing is what i used. If bullets drop undersize from the mold, add linotype. The antimony in the lynotype makes for a larger diameter bullet

 

[Salmoneye]

Here is another good source for low level cast data in lever guns:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would probably keep these plain base 10 BHN bullets to 1300 fps or slightly lower. A very good choice of powders today for lead bullet in rifle cartridges is Trail Boss. Hodgdon/IMR claims Trail Boss is what they consider the replacement for SR-4759 when it's discontinued at the end of this year.

I have loaded a 165gr plain base 12 BHN bullet with 21.0gr H4895 and that load generated 1340 fps from a Marlin levergun. There was no leading at all. (since you have that powder) As for IMR3031, I think that powder might be too much for a plain base cast bullet but I could be wrong. I do like 3031 when loading jacketed bullets in the 30-30. It's one of the two powders i use with jacketed bullets.

 

[lonewolf5347]

Bhn question?

I like to ask why some bullets with a BHN of 10 or 12 I can scratch a line in them with my finger nail others with the same BHN is a little harder takes more then a finger nail to scratch them
I just got in a batch of 38-55 from RimRock bullet company 240 FN casted at a BHN 15
I loaded a few with IMR 3031 they shot excellent not as good a my sarco mould # 738
in 255 grains BHN 10 and 12 (yep these are soft lead ) no gas checks with 34.5 IMR 3031 and no barrel leading FPS high 1700
The Rimrock bullets looked real hard but yesterday a good friend has a lead harness tester and the Rimrock boolet came in at 12 from the readings on the lead tester.
I wonder if they add a different mix to make the surface of the bullet a little harder

 

[greyling22]

here are the 2 pages from lee's modern reloading 2nd ed. that deal with reduced loads for 30/30.

BHN 10 is pretty soft, you may want to try and track down some trailboss and run your loads closer to 1000 than 1500.

I tried a plain base 150grn wheel weight bullet in my marlin that scattered all over the place. I have a 170grn gas check bullet that shoots like a laser. I"m using 2520 FWIW.

I'll also toss in 2 pages from another load manual I can't remember the cover of. lyman's cast manual maybe? It was new production. Cool gun store down in houston had several manual laying out to help with powder selection. They said go ahead and photograph pages all you want.

as far as hardness goes, could be they tossed a few extra wheel weights in with the pure lead when they alloyed, or maybe it's sunspots. you can read more about lead for reloading here http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm then you will ever want to know.

 

[243winxb]

Lonewolf,I like to ask why some bullets with a BHN of 10 or 12 I can scratch a line in them with my finger nail others with the same BHN is a little harder takes more then a finger nail to scratch them

From Lyman - While antimony is used to harden the bullet, the mixture of tin is critical, for while antimony mixes with lead in its molten state, it will not remain mixed when it solidifies. If tin were not added, we would have pure antimony crystals surrounded by pure lead. A bullet of this type , while it feels hard , would certainly lead the bore and eliminate all potential for accuracy.. In a lead-tin-antimony mixture, the antimony crystals will be present just the same, but they will be imbedded in a lead-tin mixutre. As the bullet cools the tin will form around the antimony-lead keeping your bullets from leading the bore.

If the Lyman statement is correct, different metals will be on the surface of the bullets when using different alloys.

 

[243winxb]

Antimony Brinell = 30 - 59

Pure Tin Brinell = 3.9

Pure Lead Brinell = 4.2 <> An alloy rich in tin will get softer over time, not so with antimony.

 

[35 Whelen]

From various sources:

Wt.     Bullet                  Powder          Powder  Charge   Velocity (FPS)

          140     SAECO 62630 FP IMR IMR-4895        18.0               1,115 

          140     SAECO 62630 FP IMR IMR-4895        18.0               1,330 
Remarks: Overall loaded length (inches): 2.487; accuracy (inches): 5.50; 9.5 grains Ballistic Products filler added 

          150     RCBS 150-CM      IMR IMR-4895        18.0               1,136 
Remarks: Overall loaded length (inches): 2.475; accuracy (inches): .94 

          150     RCBS 150-FN       IMR-4895              27.0               1,698 
Remarks: Overall loaded length (inches): 2.535; accuracy (inches): 2.52 

          175     NEI 175.308 GC   IMR IMR-4895        27.0               1,715 
Remarks: Overall loaded length (inches): 2.549; accuracy (inches): 1.94

          165     Oregon Trail       Hodgdon H-4895      21.0               1,403 

          165     Oregon Trail       Hodgdon H-4895      23.0               1,505 

          160       Cast LFN          Hodgdon H-4895      17.5               1351 

          160       Cast LFN          Hodgdon H-4895      21.0               1562

I'd try them at 1500 fps. Remember: cast bullets were being run 1500 fps and beyond long before the advent of gas checks. And too, how much leading do you mind messing with? For me if it's a hunting load, who cares if I have to clean the bore every 10 rounds or so? If it's a plinking/target/practice load, I might want to shoot 25 -30 before having to dry brush the bore, but everyone's different!

35W

 

[lonewolf5347]

thanks' for the data

 

[41 Mag]

I like to ask why some bullets with a BHN of 10 or 12 I can scratch a line in them with my finger nail others with the same BHN is a little harder takes more then a finger nail to scratch them
I just got in a batch of 38-55 from RimRock bullet company 240 FN casted at a BHN 15
I loaded a few with IMR 3031 they shot excellent not as good a my sarco mould # 738
in 255 grains BHN 10 and 12 (yep these are soft lead ) no gas checks with 34.5 IMR 3031 and no barrel leading FPS high 1700
The Rimrock bullets looked real hard but yesterday a good friend has a lead harness tester and the Rimrock boolet came in at 12 from the readings on the lead tester.
I wonder if they add a different mix to make the surface of the bullet a little harder

Blending alloy in my experiences is part science and part voodoo. What you can see is several different alloys having the same or very similar BHN, but due to the composition of metals in them they will react entirely different. Such as with your fingernail scratching, one might be a pure lead and antimony and "feel" harder than one say of pure, with a little tin, and a little antimony or arsenic. Either tin, antimony, or arsenic will produce some hardening, but the latter two will go a step further than simply using tin alone. The tin acts like a binding agent for the antimony and the arsenic acts like a catalyst to kick the hardening into gear. It takes only a VERY small percentage of arsenic to jump things up several notches.

Also using an alloy with say a 1-3-96 percentage of tin/antimony/ lead, one can get a different hardness depending on how quick they were cooled, how quickly sized after they were poured, or at what temp they were poured. It all plays together to come up with the end result. I used a 1/3/06 alloy to pour up some rifles bullets not long ago. I air cooled half and water dropped the other half. I waited 3-4 days after before I had time to run them through the sizer and it took almost everything I had to do so. They got HARD let me tell you. Thing is, of the ones I DID size the ones which were quenched which started out harder on my tester, were now softer than the air cooled ones. Doing a bit of research I found that this isn't unheard of in that the outside was in fact case hardened if you will, where the air cooled were simply the same hardness to the core.

This could be what you saw with your bullets. Some were poured a bit bigger than the others requiring a bit more sizing which may have removed some of the outer hardness. Not saying that is it, but a possibility.

There is a much better explanation than I have for it here,
Cast Bullet Alloys , and a TON of info over at the other links on that site that dive in much deeper into it than I can put in one post.

I can only share what I have experienced. I have am relatively new to casting with only a few years under my belt, but most of this has been working with blending alloys in order to produce fully functional HP's that I can use for hunting or otherwise from my handguns.