joshlm
Member
is it cost effective to reload the 223 with the large amount of surplus on the market? if you do what is youre cost on 1000 rounds? what powder seems the most accurate in the ar-15s. thanks for the help.
reload the 223???
- Thread starter joshlm
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i reload 223. i do it because my handloads blow anything factory produced out of the water for both accuracy and velocity. i don't recall how much money i save, but like i said, even if it was more expensive, i'd do it for the accuracy benefits alone.
if it is only about cost, buy the surplus stuff. it takes time to load, and your time has got to be worth something, and that would be enough to make handloads more expensive than factory or surplus.
for powders, i am shooting a bolt gun, so don't know how your ar will like it, but i like h-322 best.
if it is only about cost, buy the surplus stuff. it takes time to load, and your time has got to be worth something, and that would be enough to make handloads more expensive than factory or surplus.
for powders, i am shooting a bolt gun, so don't know how your ar will like it, but i like h-322 best.
warrior23
Member
If you shooting for fun,then bulk ammo is the way to go.I reload but its for accuracy in my ARs and bolt guns,many people are fooled into thinking they will save lots of money with reloading,It takes a while to recoup your initial investment,plus your personal time involved in reloading.If your gonna take the plunge then get a few loading manuals and read, read ,read,then start out getting equipment.
joshlm
Member
thanks guys
Nero Steptoe
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I load quality fmj's for around $.10 each. Doesn't take too long with my Dillon 650, either. I don't shoot anythng but my reloads through my AR, and I never have any failures.
joshlm
Member
nero,
how many rounds an hour can you produce with the 650?
how many rounds an hour can you produce with the 650?
I can handload .223 for about the same price as Wolf factory ammo. This is a rough estimate, but a buddy of mine and I came to this conclusion. I can get Wolf for $97/case. I have had good luck with Wolf, so when I am plinking or when I am doing carbine practice on silhouette targets I normally use Wolf.
I have never shot surplus ammo, so I don't know what it costs or how it performs.
If I didn't want to shoot Wolf, then handloading is cheaper than any factory load that I know of by a fairly significant amount. After Wolf, the next cheapest factory ammo I can get locally is PMC. It is about 50% more expensive than my handloads or Wolf.
Handloading rifle ammo is a PITA because you have to lube the cases before sizing and I remove the lube after sizing. I use a progressive press to load .223, but it is still far slower than loading pistol ammo. But, for me this is a hobby. I engage in hobbies for fun. I don't worry about how much time I spend on it because this is my leisure time. When people talk about how much their time is worth I always wonder how they can justify sleep or how much it cost them to watch a movie; Let's see, I spent three hours at the theatre, the tickets were $15, I got a soda and some popcorn, PLUS I would have made $100 in that time if I was at work, so the movie cost me $130.
To make loading .223 easier, I size all my cases at once on a Lee Handpress. I then prime all the cases using a Lee autoprime. I do this either at work or in front of the TV. Then, I run them through my progressive press using only three stages. This seems to be a easier method and is also more efficent time wise.
I have never shot surplus ammo, so I don't know what it costs or how it performs.
If I didn't want to shoot Wolf, then handloading is cheaper than any factory load that I know of by a fairly significant amount. After Wolf, the next cheapest factory ammo I can get locally is PMC. It is about 50% more expensive than my handloads or Wolf.
Handloading rifle ammo is a PITA because you have to lube the cases before sizing and I remove the lube after sizing. I use a progressive press to load .223, but it is still far slower than loading pistol ammo. But, for me this is a hobby. I engage in hobbies for fun. I don't worry about how much time I spend on it because this is my leisure time. When people talk about how much their time is worth I always wonder how they can justify sleep or how much it cost them to watch a movie; Let's see, I spent three hours at the theatre, the tickets were $15, I got a soda and some popcorn, PLUS I would have made $100 in that time if I was at work, so the movie cost me $130.
To make loading .223 easier, I size all my cases at once on a Lee Handpress. I then prime all the cases using a Lee autoprime. I do this either at work or in front of the TV. Then, I run them through my progressive press using only three stages. This seems to be a easier method and is also more efficent time wise.
B Sigmon
Member
Josh,
I reload for accuracy, also. I use a Dillon 650 and probably only do 350 - 400 per hour. I like to take my time with rifle ammo.
I use 69gr Sierra - moly coated, 25.4gr Hodgdon Varget. Very accurate at the 200 yards that I shoot at.
With 45acp it is easy to knock out 800 rnds per hour.
Bob Sigmon
I reload for accuracy, also. I use a Dillon 650 and probably only do 350 - 400 per hour. I like to take my time with rifle ammo.
I use 69gr Sierra - moly coated, 25.4gr Hodgdon Varget. Very accurate at the 200 yards that I shoot at.
With 45acp it is easy to knock out 800 rnds per hour.
Bob Sigmon
I guess if you are doing a true cost analysis of this, you would have to factor in the cost of the equipment. But, I handload for maybe 20 or more cartridges. And I have been loading for over 20 years. I didn't have all the equipment I now own when I started, but I personally don't consider the cost of the equipment. Again, because it is a hobby, not a business for me. I would handload whether it was cheaper or more expensive, I never even checked it out to see which it is.
Zak Smith
Member
It also depends on what load you want. If you're just shooting 55gr FMJ, it's hard to beat surplus.
If you want to shoot the heavy BTHP match rounds (68, 69, 75, 77gr) then it might be easier to break even. Black Hills "blue box" 68gr BTHP is about $16 per 50 rounds...
-z
If you want to shoot the heavy BTHP match rounds (68, 69, 75, 77gr) then it might be easier to break even. Black Hills "blue box" 68gr BTHP is about $16 per 50 rounds...
-z
Nero Steptoe
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josh: My load rate for .223's is probably pretty close to B.Sigmon's. I use Hornady One-shot case lube and tumble finisihed founds for a few minutes in clean cc media, which easily removes the lube.
I use a Hornady powder drop on my 650, with the case-activated kit, for loading .223 and other bottleneck rounds. If I were loading for precision shooting (and I"m not talking benchrest quality, just not "bulk"), I'd probably still use my 650, but would just slow down a lot.
FWIW (and I really don't mean this as a flame to anybody), I'd much prefer spending whatever time and expense are required to get quality reloads from my 650 than running steel-cased Wolf crap through my Bushy. Bushmaster specifically warns against the use of Wolf ammo in their rifles.
I use a Hornady powder drop on my 650, with the case-activated kit, for loading .223 and other bottleneck rounds. If I were loading for precision shooting (and I"m not talking benchrest quality, just not "bulk"), I'd probably still use my 650, but would just slow down a lot.
FWIW (and I really don't mean this as a flame to anybody), I'd much prefer spending whatever time and expense are required to get quality reloads from my 650 than running steel-cased Wolf crap through my Bushy. Bushmaster specifically warns against the use of Wolf ammo in their rifles.
joshlm
Member
thanks everyone for all the excellent info it was very helpful.
Not to beat a dead horse, but asking about the cost of handloading .223 is similar to asking what a car costs. Well which car are we talking about ? What options does it have ? Etc.
For example, if you just happen to pick up a few hundred .223 cases lying on the ground at a range, then the brass is free. You might shoot with a buddy that doesn't handload and he offers you the brass. You might also buy mil-surp brass and in the interest of saving money be willing to remove the crimped primer pockets. Or you might want only the best and buy Lupua brass.
You might buy surplus powder. I got a smoking deal one time on 65 pounds of powder from a guy that was an FFL, went out of business and got tired of all this stuff sitting in his garage. I bought everything he had including the powder, 16,000 primers and all kinds of other stuff for like $200.
Bullets are one of the most expensive components. Do you want premium hunting or varmint bullets ? Do you want precision match bullets ? Or will pulled millitary bullets suffice for the type of shooting you do ? I personally buy bullets in bulk from Midway, either Winchester or Remington.
Then of course, the cost of all components depends on the quantity you are buying. Are you buying your powder one pound at a time or are you buying 4, 6, or 8 pound jugs ? Bullets- are you buying one box of 100 or are you like me and buy two boxes of 1000 at a time ? I buy primers 5000 at a time. You might buy one box of 100 primers.
Then of course just like grocery shopping, do you shop around or do you just go to your nearest gun dealer and pay whatever he asks. I find that components are cheaper at the gunshow. I also sometimes order stuff through off the internet. Powder is almost always cheaper on-line but you have to pay the haz mat fee, but if you order enough powder at once it is still worth it.
You can also get together with several like minded friends and order large quantities of stuff, taking advantage of the discount and then divide it up.
A lot of this stuff depends on the type of shooting you do. I personally shoot the vast majority of my .223 ammo out of an AR15 carbine in defensive type courses of fire. I don't need absolute pinpoint accuracy. I need decent accuracy, but if I can shoot a 5" group at 200 yards, that is fine. Other people shoot NRA Highpower matches where they are shooting from positions out to 600 yards. They obviously have higher standards than I do. I also own a couple precision rifles in .223; A Bushmaster varmiteer and a Tikka Bolt gun. In those, I use different components and different loading methods becasue I am demanding much greater precision and I also am not blowing through hundreds of rounds in a range session. I have a set of brass that I use only in those rifles that never sees my AR15s. Then I do a little varmint hunting with a Remington 788 in .223. Again, different components. I want highly frangible varmint bullets like the Hornady V-Max. But, for coyotes, I don't need the last drop of accuracy, so I use my standard range brass. The cost of each of these loads is highly variable.
For example, if you just happen to pick up a few hundred .223 cases lying on the ground at a range, then the brass is free. You might shoot with a buddy that doesn't handload and he offers you the brass. You might also buy mil-surp brass and in the interest of saving money be willing to remove the crimped primer pockets. Or you might want only the best and buy Lupua brass.
You might buy surplus powder. I got a smoking deal one time on 65 pounds of powder from a guy that was an FFL, went out of business and got tired of all this stuff sitting in his garage. I bought everything he had including the powder, 16,000 primers and all kinds of other stuff for like $200.
Bullets are one of the most expensive components. Do you want premium hunting or varmint bullets ? Do you want precision match bullets ? Or will pulled millitary bullets suffice for the type of shooting you do ? I personally buy bullets in bulk from Midway, either Winchester or Remington.
Then of course, the cost of all components depends on the quantity you are buying. Are you buying your powder one pound at a time or are you buying 4, 6, or 8 pound jugs ? Bullets- are you buying one box of 100 or are you like me and buy two boxes of 1000 at a time ? I buy primers 5000 at a time. You might buy one box of 100 primers.
Then of course just like grocery shopping, do you shop around or do you just go to your nearest gun dealer and pay whatever he asks. I find that components are cheaper at the gunshow. I also sometimes order stuff through off the internet. Powder is almost always cheaper on-line but you have to pay the haz mat fee, but if you order enough powder at once it is still worth it.
You can also get together with several like minded friends and order large quantities of stuff, taking advantage of the discount and then divide it up.
A lot of this stuff depends on the type of shooting you do. I personally shoot the vast majority of my .223 ammo out of an AR15 carbine in defensive type courses of fire. I don't need absolute pinpoint accuracy. I need decent accuracy, but if I can shoot a 5" group at 200 yards, that is fine. Other people shoot NRA Highpower matches where they are shooting from positions out to 600 yards. They obviously have higher standards than I do. I also own a couple precision rifles in .223; A Bushmaster varmiteer and a Tikka Bolt gun. In those, I use different components and different loading methods becasue I am demanding much greater precision and I also am not blowing through hundreds of rounds in a range session. I have a set of brass that I use only in those rifles that never sees my AR15s. Then I do a little varmint hunting with a Remington 788 in .223. Again, different components. I want highly frangible varmint bullets like the Hornady V-Max. But, for coyotes, I don't need the last drop of accuracy, so I use my standard range brass. The cost of each of these loads is highly variable.
WalkerTexasRanger
Member
I reload for the .223 simply because you cant buy loaded Sierra 80s anywhere... Really, I would agree with handloading based on two points above, 1 hobby, 2 accuracy. Notice $$ is not listed as an issue...
joshlm
Member
well i can get my brass for free from a budy that i shoot with, he decided he does not have enough time to reload and gave me 500 spent S&b cases, and said i could have as many more as i wanted. i also have found a place called gi brass that is only about 1/2 hr from my house and has resinable prices on both pulled and unpulled bullets and powder. it looks like with this combination i can save money and have better ammo at the same time.as always excellent post 444.
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