Reloaded ammo Fail Headspace Gauge (.223)

[adamcap]

I was wondering if anyone has had an issue with .223 when it comes to using a Head space gauge on the Remade ammo itself?

Let me explain, i bought 1000 rounds of .223 virgin (wolf ewwww) Brass that was preprimed, it was an awesome price so i had to go for it.

after reloading them all ive noticed that i keep getting jams in almost any ar. So i decided to buy a head space gauge checker (For the bullet) and almost all of them are too big.

I have bought another set of brass (1ce fired) ran them threw my prep station (resize/trim) and still to no avail. They still stick out of the head space gauge.

Does anyone happen to know a fix for this issue? Could it be my resize die isnt down far enough? (I followed the directions) Or what else might it be?

thanks in advance everyone.


EDIT: https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Produc...g_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=S42HWKQE44630VS26887 this is the headspace gauge i was using.

 

[Cheesemaker]

You loaded all 1000?

Likely resize is not right. Are you FL sizing and camming over?

 

[adamcap]

Well i thought i was, (im new to reloading) But had a person who i thought was experienced helping me set up my first set of dies.

So what your saying is to:

1. Screw my resizing die down till it touches the shell plate
2. Drop my shell plate
then screw it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn to make sure that when i go full stroke it "Over Cams"?

EDIT: (to answer your question i don't think I'm "over camming"
and yes i loading all 1k rounds =[

 

[JimKirk]

Are you crimping ? If so load a few without the crimp and try them in the gauge ....

I never crimp any .223 ammo .... no need if the case is sized correctly ....

Leason .... never load over 10 or so cartridges with out CHECKING FIT before moving forward .... it is much easier to pull down 10 than 1000 !!

 

[Walkalong]

"Virgin" brass should have been fine. Too bad you didn't have the gauge yet, or if you did, failed to check the cases before loading. That would at least tell you if the cases were out of spec or your loading caused a problem.

Assuming the cases were OK before loading the best bet is crimping buckled the shoulder a tiny bit. It doesn't take much.

Did you crimp?

With the new OF brass, use the gauge to set up the sizer. Forget tuning one turn, or adjusting to hit the shell holder. Adjust the sizer until it makes the brass fit the gauge. That will ensure the shoulder is where it needs to be.

Does that gauge check headspace and length only like the Wilson? If so, the brass could still be too fat.

A Sheridan gauge checks diameter as well.

 

[adamcap]

Yes i was Crimping (again my mistake i thought it was a must)

I didn't have the gauge before (just recently got it) and i am unsure if the gauge i have now does diameter as well, but i will call today and find out.

So from what ive read so far, it could be because;

1. Im not "Over Camming"
2. It could be because I'm crimping
3. I should get a head space checker that also does diameter (if mine does not)

I do know that the checker that i have now, the .223 gets tight when inserted sometimes so tight i have to punch it out. Would this mean that i need to re adjust my sizing die?

and yeah i figured out the whole make 10, triple check everything, and then keep going after the fact lol.


thanks again everyone for all the advise. keep it coming. i will start with the science project when i get home from work, and let everyone know what i find.

 

[Blue68f100]

Your best option at this time would be to use a Body Sizing Die Like Redding-S Bushing die, w/o the bushing. This will allow you to resize the brass without breaking them down. Provided the bullet is not contacting the lands.

But you need to confirm where you binding at. Paint up a round with a marker and chamber the round and confirm it contacting on the shoulder. If so get you the body die and resize the brass again to the correct error.

I always size new brass with the only exception being Lapua Match brass.

I would also do a good cleaning on the chamber just to make sure you don't have a carbon build up adding to the problem.

 

[adamcap]

I did resize the brass, but i like the idea of the redding-s Bushing die that way i dont have to break down the brass thank you very much for the advise.

I will add painting the round to my list of things to do (will do this first)

also im not sure if it matters but im shooting in an AR-15 (stag arms)

 

[au_prospector]

I had the same problem, turned out to be overcrimp

I no longer crimp .223

Run your fingers down the loaded case. In my experience where the shoulder starts, was the problem. You may not see it, but I could feel it. There was a slight bulge or fold at this point preventing the round to chamber. If you have it, this is due to the crimp starting before the bullet is fully seated.

I am not sure if there is a way to fix this without pulling the bullet, resizing the case and starting over. Always load a few, maybe 50 first to check function, accuracy, etc before doing any large batch. Now you know.

 

[adamcap]

Im not sure how the crimp can start before the bullet is fully seated, on my press its 2 separate steps? or am i missing something (could you please explain a little further)

Stages:
1. De-prime/resize
2. Prime/Powder
3. Powder checker
4. Bullet seat
5. Crimp

 

[RecoilRob]

What kind of crimp did you use? Roll crimping sucks bad...and is VERY easy to buckle the neck/shoulder enough to make them not fit in the chamber. A collet crimp just pushes the neck into the cannelure radially and won't crush the case...though you still don't want to go crazy with one as they'll deform the bullet. Just bump in the neck enough so it for sure won't snag on anything during the slide up into the chamber and all is good.

Oh hey.....did you check the brass for OAL before loading it? I know it's new...and 'should' be good to go, but for some weird reason just about every 5.56 round I've ever measured as a 'once-fired' was way, way too long. It's like they added some neck material so they could put a mongo-crimp on them in the factory loading which then makes us need to trim every single one to reload them. Sucks.

 

[WelshShooter]

I no longer crimp .223

Run your fingers down the loaded case. In my experience where the shoulder starts, was the problem. You may not see it, but I could feel it. There was a slight bulge or fold at this point preventing the round to chamber. If you have it, this is due to the crimp starting before the bullet is fully seated.

I am not sure if there is a way to fix this without pulling the bullet, resizing the case and starting over. Always load a few, maybe 50 first to check function, accuracy, etc before doing any large batch. Now you know.

This right here. When I loaded .223 for the first time I couldn't close the bolt on my rifle (bolt action, but that's not the point). Upon inspecting the ammo I found some bulges around the shoulder where I had overcrimped my bullets. Adding too much crimp will buckle the shoulders and therefore not making it fit in a chamber. This can be resolved by full length sizing the cases (after disassembly, which is a pain in the rear...). I've never crimped a rifle case after that and have never had a problem.

 

[Walkalong]

So from what ive read so far, it could be because;

1. Im not "Over Camming"
2. It could be because I'm crimping
3. I should get a head space checker that also does diameter (if mine does not)

1. If your press cams over you should do it every time regardless of die adjustment. Either way, the ram should go all the way up every time. This isn't how you adjust the sizing. That is constant, you adjust the die, and it doesn't necessarily need to touch the shell plate/holder. You need to set up the sizer using the case gauge. This will ensure proper head clearance in a properly head spaced rifle. (The shoulder is in the right spot, which is actually a min and a max)

2. Very likely it sounds like. Easy to do. That compound leverage really makes it feel light.

3. You may be just fine with the one you have, even if it doesn't check diameter. Check sized cases before loading. If they pass your gauge, you will likely be fine in the rifle as far as diameter. Try it and see. If you are, you're golden. No new gauge needed.

Then just be more careful with crimp, if you continue to crimp.

And, as posted, and how you have learned the hard way, always load a small batch to start.

 

[fguffey]

Adamcap, the case does not have head space, available to you are gages that measure the case; one is a case gage and the other is a chamber gage. Take off barrels can be used as chamber gages.

A reloader can determine if a case was sized and returned to minimum/full length size before lowering the ram; any part of the case that holds the die off the shell holder did not get shoved into the die.

F. Guffey

 

[combatinfidel]

FWIW I always check headspace before priming and loading powder and bullets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[carbine85]

Post a picture of the Virgin loaded brass along side a loaded rounded.
As stated already, don't crimp or don't crimp when seating a bullet. I'm betting you bumped the shoulder back.
No need to resize Virgin brass
Do reload so much at one time until you test it.

 

[adamcap]

thanks a ton yall, i much appreciate everything that each and everyone who posted has said, and given for advise. I will Defiantly work tonight and get this rolling. my ar keeps yelling at me telling me it needs range time!

 

[mjsdwash]

If your dies are set up properly, maybe a bad die? Did you confirm the OAL of the case, and the loaded cartridge? Looking at that test block, it seems that either of those being slightly too long would cause problems. Have you loaded with this die set before?

 

[adamcap]

no sir/maam i have not loading with this die set before, this is the first round. there Brand new Carbide Dillion Dies so im assuming there good, i do believe after reading everything that i have set them up poorly. and i need to redo the setup.

the OAL matches my Lyman reloading manual, along with the dimensions all the way around (from top to bottom)

 

[mdi]

Any time there is a fit problem, measure! Measure the brass, with a micrometer, before sizing. Measure the brass after sizing. Measure the bullet diameter. Measure the case dimensions after bullet seating. Measure the case dimensions after crimping. Measure OAL. Compare these dimensions with the SAAMI specs in your reloading manual. Find out where the cartridge is too big and when it becomes too big. Everything else is a WAG...

Basically a cartridge is a peg. The chamber is a hole. For the peg (cartridge) to fit into the hole (chamber) it must be smaller than the hole...

 

[adamcap]

i have measured everything, and it all matches my book. I will defiantly double check this when i get home tho. Thank you!

 

[Walkalong]

I posted:

You need to set up the sizer using the case gauge. This will ensure proper head clearance in a properly head spaced rifle

fguffey posted:

Adamcap, the case does not have head space,

fguffey is correct of course, despite the fact we tend to say headspace gauge when we talk about the case gauges and tend to say the headspace is right on the brass.

Headspace is a static measurement of a rifle action. Hopefully it is correct, and you can buy go, no go, "headspace" gauges to check it.

"Headspace Gauge Sets In Popular Rifle & Pistol Calibers"

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ace-gauges/go-no-go-gauge-sets-prod26876.aspx

What you have is a case gauge, for measuring the case. If the case passes the gauge it is safe in a correctly machined chamber. We tend to say the headspace is OK (Talking about the case), despite that not being technically correct. The case is just sized correctly (Will give a safe amount of head clearance (Slop front to back when the brass is chambered.)) in a properly made (Headspace is correct) chamber, and we assume the headspace of the rifle is OK.

Make sense? (I probably made it sound confusing)

Either way, sounds like you know what to check now.

 

[adamcap]

fguffey is correct of course, despite the fact we tend to say headspace gauge when we talk about the case gauges and tend to say the headspace is right on the brass.

Headspace is a static measurement of a rifle action. Hopefully it is correct, and you can buy go, no go, "headspace" gauges to check it.

"Headspace Gauge Sets In Popular Rifle & Pistol Calibers"

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...prod26876.aspx

What you have is a case gauge, for measuring the case. If the case passes the gauge it is safe in a correctly machined chamber. We tend to say the headspace is OK (Talking about the case), despite that not being technically correct. The case is just sized correctly (Will give a safe amount of head clearance (Slop front to back when the brass is chambered.)) in a properly made (Headspace is correct) chamber, and we assume the headspace of the rifle is OK.

Make sense? (I probably made it sound confusing)

Either way, sounds like you know what to check now.

you didnt make it sound confusing at all, i appreciate that. I do think that i will buy a "Head space" gauge to check my rife also but from everything ive been reading i do believe that my dies are improperly set-up. I will double, and triple check everything and get back to everyone tonight or tomorrow. thanks everyone for all the input and advise.

 

[Cheesemaker]

Yours is a factory Stag arms AR - right? If so, very unlikely the headspace is not right. Stag make decent stuff. No need to fork over $$$$ for headspace gauges right now. If you built your own AR - maybe.

Make sure your dies are set right (I know you have said this) - size a few cases - check the case gauge and chambering.
Load a few rounds and check the same. And don't crimp.

 

[alexcue]

Well lets make it even more confusing! Lyman calls those Chamber Checkers! Personally I've used them for Pistol Calibers with great success, the only thing they really are missing is C.O.L. Gauge. Since they are multi-caliber affairs, that isn't going to work.