reloading 30 30win and using gauges

[larry7293]

I am going to be reloading 30 30win for the first time. Have been reloading straight wall cartridges for a while now.
Looking into getting a gauge or gauges to check my newly reloaded rounds for proper head space and to make sure they chamber okay. Does the Wilson gauge and Lyman ammo checker check the same thing? Thinking of full length resizing the first time and then maybe bumping back the shoulder a few thousands on my fire formed brass so not to over work the brass.
Will be firing these in a Henry lever action rifle.
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[DMW1116]

Can't help with your question, but 30-30 was the first rifle cartridge I tried, and am still doing new stuff with it. My 336 is sometimes picky, but I think I found a diet it likes using extra lead supplements (cast bullets). I never tried anything like you're asking, so that may be an answer of it's own. I always full length size, as my rifle has shown a tendency to be finicky about chambering some types of ammo (Monarch).

 

[txtaxman]

Looking into getting a gauge or gauges to check my newly reloaded rounds for proper head space and to make sure they chamber okay. Does the Wilson gauge and Lyman ammo checker check the same thing?

No, the Wilson gage and Lyman ammo checker do not check the same things. The Lyman checks sized cases or loaded rounds for proper fit. If a case fits in the Lyman, it will fit in any SAAMI chamber.
The Wilson gage will accept a fired case. This allows you to compare it to a sized case to determine how much the cartridge base to datum has been changed (bumped, if you prefer).

 

[WeekendReloader]

I have a Hornady case gauge (drop the reloaded round in to check for fit). So long as I seated the bullet enough to be away from the rifiling, anything that fits this gauge will fit in the chamber. I full length size my brass with a LEE die set. No problems whatsoever.

My gauge looks like this (but says 30-30 WIN on it):
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018249683?pid=709220

You can go one step further and get the gauge set that measures headspace to help set the sizing die to minimally resize the case and bump the shoulder back just enough. I purchased the Hornady gauge set and adjusted my full length sizing die to bump the shoulder back 0.005" from the fired measurement. Why? Because I can, I guess. Accuracy didn't change. I'm hoping that maybe brass life will be longer. That, and I like buying tools.
My Hornady Headspace gauge / Comparator set looks like this:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012743827?pid=479704

Warning: I bought a set from Amazon and received a counterfeit set. Buy from a reputable shooting sports vendor (like MidwayUSA or similar).

 

[DMW1116]

Now I get to start measuring stuff like this for my 30-30. Don’t know if it will make a difference but I want to know how anyway.

 

[N555]

You already have a gauge and the only one that matters. It's your gun.
My 30-30 is rounds are way over book and they shoot great, my 30-30 reloads shoot little over 1moa out to 150 yards on a good day and on a bad day about 2moa. Either way that's still a dead deer or coyote.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I never considered headspace a concern with rimmed brass. It spaces on the rim, not the shoulder. As long as it feeds into your chamber up to that rim, you're golden.

 

[AJC1]

A Guage will not work for headspace on a rimmed cartridge... fire and bump fired cases .003 and roll on.

 

[DMW1116]

See that's information I need right there. Now I don't have to go home and do those measurements. I probably will anyway though.

 

[Bearded Phil]

A Guage will not work for headspace on a rimmed cartridge... fire and bump fired cases .003 and roll on.

How do you measure the bump without a headspace gauge? Genuinely asking, I've been thinking about this as well to keep my brass lasting longer.

Right now I've pretty much just rolled my die out to the point where after sizing it fits again in the chamber. I was looking for a Sinclair gauge head with the right degree of angle for 30-30 (15ish) and found the didn't make one. I wondered why for about a minute and slapped myself on the head. "Of course, 30-30 headspaces on the rim, not the neck."

I saw the Hornady set has 5 different general gauges for a "jack of all, master of none" type situation and wondered if they'd be fine enough. Then I started wondering how much it mattered, then I forgot, haha. Lots of other loading stuff to think about.

 

[AJC1]

How do you measure the bump without a headspace gauge? Genuinely asking, I've been thinking about this as well to keep my brass lasting longer.

Right now I've pretty much just rolled my die out to the point where after sizing it fits again in the chamber. I was looking for a Sinclair gauge head with the right degree of angle for 30-30 (15ish) and found the didn't make one. I wondered why for about a minute and slapped myself on the head. "Of course, 30-30 headspaces on the rim, not the neck."

I saw the Hornady set has 5 different general gauges for a "jack of all, master of none" type situation and wondered if they'd be fine enough. Then I started wondering how much it mattered, then I forgot, haha. Lots of other loading stuff to think about.

The comparator tool will show bump... headspace is totally different and is a tiny waffer.

 

[N555]

How do you measure the bump without a headspace gauge? Genuinely asking, I've been thinking about this as well to keep my brass lasting longer.

Right now I've pretty much just rolled my die out to the point where after sizing it fits again in the chamber. I was looking for a Sinclair gauge head with the right degree of angle for 30-30 (15ish) and found the didn't make one. I wondered why for about a minute and slapped myself on the head. "Of course, 30-30 headspaces on the rim, not the neck."

I saw the Hornady set has 5 different general gauges for a "jack of all, master of none" type situation and wondered if they'd be fine enough. Then I started wondering how much it mattered, then I forgot, haha. Lots of other loading stuff to think about.

Size, trim and load 1 or 2 rounds and see if they go plunk. If not bump back the shoulder a few more thousands and try again.
You have to seat a bullet because when setting up my dies, I thought I had a nice shoulder bump, sized all the brass, loaded a few and found that seating the bullet on the thin 30-30 case deformed the shoulder and wouldn't plunk after seating the bullet. Bumping the shoulder few more thousands did the trick.

 

[film495]

make some dummy rounds and cycle them through the action. probably do a full tube of them. measure them all before for cartridge lenght, and then again after, and see if the average changes, if they jam, or some other issue appears. if they get shorter after a few cycles through the action, the crimp may be not enough. you can use a gauge or just use the chamber as a gauge for chambering correctly. they should all drop in cleanly and completely making a little plunk sound when they bottom, and they should all fall out cleanly with no help when you turn the chamber to face down.

the first few times I did bottleneck, I got dented shoulders. I didn't think I was using too much lube, but I was.

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

the first few times I did bottleneck, I got dented shoulders. I didn't think I was using too much lube, but I was.

Been there, done that.....

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

the first few times I did bottleneck, I got dented shoulders. I didn't think I was using too much lube, but I was.

Been there, done that.....

First bottleneck case I reloaded was .30-06 for a Mdl 1917. I bought a Lee Loader kit because some Jack wagon at the shooting club told me you can’t reload rifle rounds on a C-press, they’ll end up crooked. The Lee kit works fine, I still have it and even use it every once in a while but, I didn’t think. Dropped five of those reloads into my Remington 721 mag and jammed a round in the chamber. Neck sizing vs full length sizing. Getting that live round out of that rifle was a real puckerfest. Gotta remember to think.

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

First bottleneck case I reloaded was .30-06 for a Mdl 1917

Ditto!
What's the odds!!!

My Dad's old sporterized target rifle with Redfield peep sights that I use for deer hunting.

 

[garandsrus]

All you need is a hex bolt that you have drilled a hole through one side. The hole needs to be somewhere between the neck diameter and the largest diameter at the base of the shoulder.

Put the fired case neck through the hole and measure the OAL of the bolt and case. Set the caliper to .000. In use, the bolt will contact the case shoulder somewhere, which is all that matters. Now, size the case until the caliper reads -.003 to -.005. This is how much you bumped the shoulder back when yo sized the case. Load a couple and make sure they chamber. After that, you are good to go. You can use the 6 facets for different calibers. This is VERY similar to the Sinclair Comparitor. However, you are using a bigger than caliber hole because you are checking the case shoulder, not the bullet.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...r-hex-style-bullet-comparators-prod83792.aspx

 

[AJC1]

All you need is a hex bolt that you have drilled a hole through one side. The hole needs to be somewhere between the neck diameter and the largest diameter at the base of the shoulder.

Put the fired case neck through the hole and measure the OAL of the bolt and case. Set the caliper to .000. In use, the bolt will contact the case shoulder somewhere, which is all that matters. Now, size the case until the caliper reads -.003 to -.005. This is how much you bumped the shoulder back when yo sized the case. Load a couple and make sure they chamber. After that, you are good to go. You can use the 6 facets for different calibers. This is VERY similar to the Sinclair Comparitor. However, you are using a bigger than caliber hole because you are checking the case shoulder, not the bullet.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...r-hex-style-bullet-comparators-prod83792.aspx

That won't work for shoulder bump...

 

[garandsrus]

I have been doing it for years!

 

[AJC1]

I have been doing it for years!

That measures the ojive of the bullet not the datum of the case...

 

[Slamfire]

My JM Marlin 336 has a huge chamber. The base to shoulder distance is way, way out there. Standard cartridge case headspace gauges are not too helpful, because the base to shoulder distance is way above the machined marks in the gauges.



I used a comparator to more or less set the base to shoulder distance. I measured fired cases and bumped the shoulders back about 0.003".

Something else I did, with this much shoulder movement, I was very concerned about case head separations. So on first firing, I fired the cases with a lubricant on them.



Hair gels are vasoline with perfume. I have used vasoline but this hair gel is stiffer due to the beeswax mix.

I regularly dip and twist, and if need be, apply on the case body using my fingers








Lubricant on the outside of the case keeps the case from gripping the chamber. The case slides to the bolt face, the shoulders fold out, the lube goes up the barrel and out the back of the action




and what you end up with is a stress free, perfectly fireformed case. Set the shoulder back about 0.003" (average) and the case will chamber properly, fire properly, and the cases won't be excessively stretched on the next firing.

This is something the in print guys never talk about, that is what to do when the base to shoulder distance is not controlled, which it is not with belted magnums and rimmed cartridges. Firing these cases lubed will give extended case life in the less rigid actions. Such as the 303 British Lee Enfield.



Lubed case ammunition shoots fine

 

[garandsrus]

That measures the ojive of the bullet not the datum of the case...

Re-read my post. You need to use a hole that is larger than the case neck and smaller than the shoulder diameter, which is why I suggested drilling your own hole. Reaming the final diameter would be even better, but most folks don’t have reamers. The hole will contact the shoulder and you can measure the OAL before and after sizing to see how much you pushed the shoulder back.

 

[AJC1]

Re-read my post. You need to use a hole that is larger than the case neck and smaller than the shoulder diameter, which is why I suggested drilling your own hole. Remind the final diameter would be even better, but most folks don’t have reamers. The hole will contact the shoulder and you can measure the OAL before and after sizing to see how much you pushed the shoulder back.

Just any hole won't work.... it should be a reamed and deburred hole.... I can bore a close hole with a boring bar on my lathe. Most people don't just have cool tools laying around.

 

[garandsrus]

Slam fire,

Instead of using lube, I seat the bullets so they lightly contact the lands and hold the cases against the bolt face. The case expands to fit the chamber correctly. After that, the comparator works great to set the shoulder with the sizing die.

 

[garandsrus]

Just any hole won't work.... it should be a reamed and deburred hole.... I can bore a close hole with a boring bar on my lathe. Most people don't just have cool tools laying around.

I should have used nut, not bolt! Deburring and reaming are definitely “better”, but pretty much any hole will work. You wiggle the case a little to get the minimum reading on the caliper and use that as your .000. It is very repeatable. The case shoulder only touches the hole at the outside edge of the nut. A burr would normally be in the center of the nut where the hole breaks through the threads. The case will never touch this so it doesn’t really matter. A close fit is not needed and not really wanted. Any hole diameter is fine. It needs to be larger than the fired neck diameter since the first measurement is before sizing. I try to use a diameter somewhere around the middle diameter of the case shoulder. Figure out which drill bit is close and go with that. A nut of about 1” diameter works well.

I use the same hole for multiple calibers as long as the case shoulder contacts the edge of the hole.

I do have a lathe so when I have made these, I used a boring bar to remove the threads from the inside of the nut which is similar to deburring. It didn’t change anything but looks better.

I normally make something like the Hornady Comparator where the taper of my piece pretty closely matches the case shoulder angle. The through hole is large enough so that the fired case neck can enter, but not extend past the end of the comparator. You want to make sure the tool doesn’t touch the start of the shoulder because there is a radius there that could give inaccurate readings.